Talk:Civilizations: The Dawn

Preambles
Good Idea, but I'm busy on other Wikis. Good luck, I'll spread the word to some other users to.Whipsnade (talk) 17:21, September 26, 2013 (UTC)

I also hit the 'premote button'!Whipsnade (talk) 18:32, October 6, 2013 (UTC)

Nice work.The River Nile-2 (talk) 15:14, October 14, 2013 (UTC)

Description

 * For one side the Central island is going to be easily taken by Feud, although is a very good place for a developed civilization to arise as its Oceania like and with europe's weather, its fairly a good choice. setting Feud's expansionism aside
 * Æcasium is my landmass, the outlined red, its fairly a similar choice, but has some deserts in its natural borders, the best for trading, and most protected from tribalexternal groups, (ATL Mongol equivalents, or Huns) its like europe in its shapeand weather, and has many rivers so it can help you industrialize and develop as a culture fairly fast, Good choice.
 * Bayessaeu is Eip's Continent, its fairly big, but fragmented, most of its territory is a desertic with only a few regions (Mostly the coastal regions and the Middle island) are of Amazonic, or European continental weather, or mountainious, due to the lack of extended rivers in most of the continent, it can present a big chanllenge for any culture within it, if you don't have a close source for the river. its the one outlined in purple
 * Zurker is the Westernmost and the one with more rivers it presents some Mountainious formations but for the most part its a fairly good choice. the only downside is that is the most isolated so the score for the provincial will be based mostly in the amount of rivers you'll have within your country or that border you. it as well presents several plateau's in the central regions and the southern regions difficulting access to these regions. its the One outlined in cyan
 * Argenterium is the Biggest continent and its ATL equivalent of asia, is big, and desertic although in the continent there's a Green ring or the Green Crescent, Equivalent to the Fertile crescent and it extends For thousands of Kilometers, its equivalent in size to the whole Æcasium or Bayessaeu,Any nation in control of such territories would have a fairly big empire, and power and would easily control trade between the coasts, and the regions, not the best choice, but depending where you set your nation, you can thrive
 * The landmass5 is a Iceland like island is vastly unpopulated, with a only a handfull of tribes through the entire island, and most of them are of the same cultural trend, it can easily be conquered, and unified, its not going to be easy to develop trading empires in the region, and the only real plausible economic thing you could do in this island is fishing and Cutting tree's
 * in the Landmass 6 is a masive desert with plateau's dividing the continent from Argenterium, its Pretty much a gigantic arabian like desert with several Oasis regions and forests in the coasts and some inland, not many nations or tribes live here due to its weather, and its not the best choice for an empire
 * O'aia (insert description here)
 * Rivia is a Mountainous, rainy island, with a large population for its size. It is dominated by the Rivian tribe, and will not fit anymore tribes.

Top current maps



Start?
When are we gonna start?

Kytax (talk) 19:44, October 5, 2013 (UTC)

There are still algos which need development, so we should start on Monday or Tuesday. Cookiedamage (talk) 22:59, October 5, 2013 (UTC)

Maps
Hey guys

I've noticed a few people have been uploading maps each turn to the main page. To me, it seems like a bad idea in the long run, so I suggest we upload a map every five years, like PMII. IMO the five-year map plan would not be as disorganizaed as a constant upload of maps.

Thanks!

Cookiedamage (talk) 20:36, October 11, 2013 (UTC)

I agree with Cookie's Opinion and had infact to do as he said. Its more organized than just adding maps. Sine dei gloriem (talk) 21:22, October 11, 2013 (UTC)

Turn start/end?
When will each turn end and the next turn start? I've noticed it's been slightly chaotic, with the new turn occuring sometime around 7:00 - 7:30 PM EST (Eastern Standard Time, US) . I think we should implement something along the lines of PMII's time, so around 21:00 UTC (which would be 5:00 EST or 4:00 on daylight savings time) or maybe 22:00 UTC (which would be around 6:00 EST or 5:00 on daylight savings time). What do you guys think, because I feel a loose turn start/end time would be damaging in the long run for the game. Cookiedamage (talk) 22:51, October 13, 2013 (UTC)

The game is to ancient history for me.Whipsnade (talk) 13:40, December 25, 2013 (UTC)

Nation X:

 * Location:
 * Strength:
 * Tactical Advantage:
 * Random:
 * Motive:
 * Casus Belli:
 * Total:

Nation Y:

 * Location:
 * Strength:
 * Tactical Advantage:
 * Random:
 * Motive:
 * Casus Belli:
 * Total:

Thalassia

 * Location: nearby +5
 * Strength:Side with greater Population +8, Tiny army +3,Control of the seas +2, Build up +14/0 = 14,Expansion -7
 * Tactical Advantage:Attacker's advantage +2
 * Random:+8 - other RNG
 * Motive: Social moral +6
 * Casus Belli: Self Defense +4
 * Total:37 + Random

Paedaea

 * Location:  In the country of yours +6
 * Strength:  Tiny army +3,Tired military -6,Expansion -3
 * Tactical Advantage:Defender's advantage +4
 * Random: +7 - OTHER RNG
 * Motive: Provoked +8
 * Casus Belli: Self defense +4
 * Total: 16 + Random

Result
((37/(37+16)*2)-1)  = 0,396222 which means i get 40% of Paedaea and means that i topple the government

((7*37)/16)=16.19/8)=2*1.5 = 3 years the war lasts so by this turn (Turn 10 YIG) the thalassians would get to topple Paedaea's government and annex them or their gains.

Discussion
Haven't fix the provinciol scoring so didn't added it. Sine dei gloriem (talk) 08:22, October 18, 2013 (UTC)

Revitalization Plan
This is a brief plan involving the revitilzation of CTD. Sine and I, CookieDamage, throughly enjoy the game and hope you all have as well. We would like to see it continue, and seeing it has only been approximately three or four months since the game died, we hope we can revive it.

Timespan
Until most or all of the nations come into contact with each other, each turn will represent one decade. It is expected this will end anywhere from a months to four months.

End/Start Dates
Each turn will begin at 00:00 UTC. If you are confused about UTC times and how they correspond to your time, please click this link http://weatherarc.com/utc-time-conversion .

For example, 00:00 UTC is 7:00 PM EST (New York City, Washington D.C, Miami)

O.K.!Whipsnade (talk) 13:45, December 25, 2013 (UTC)

Mod Events
Mod events will be much more expansive and intensive, affecting all countries. This is done so the game does not become boring and a challenge is given to the scattered countries before challenges can be presented by players in cases of war, diplomacy, etc...

Stages of Governmental Structure
Here is a chart representing the various types of governments at the start of the game.***

Note
***This is not a progression chart, which means a Stage Four C government can remain that way the entire game and not evolve into Stage 5 A. Similarly, a Stage 4 government (monarchy) can undergo a change and turn into a republic, either retaining Stage 4 traits or moving straight onto Stages 5 B or 5 C. Once more, this is not a progression chart, a nation can be created starting anywhere on this chart and can evolve however is plausible.

Good idea.Whipsnade (talk) 13:41, December 25, 2013 (UTC)

Hey guys im back in the game just had christmas and whatnot :P The Unchallenged Conqueror #FP (Talk to Me) ===Provincial Scoring === Nations are to be divided into Provinces, and the details to creating, maintaining, and understanding Provinces are mentioned below.

====River province: ====


 * Defined as an area that contains one or more rivers within its territory, having a coast of 4% gain in an algorythm to gain a province that falls under this classification, after the first 5% is achieved to gain more river provinces, the attacker would only need +2% more of gains from the algo to gain them.

Core province:

 * Defined as a heavily populated region of the nation, there can only be 4 core province colonies per every 100px and core provinces can only be declared by economic or ethnic-cultural reasons, for a core province to be taken there's the need of 15% algorythm gain.

Basic /Standard Province:

 * Defined as a territory of no major relevance to the nation, and its a territory that has no major resources for the nation.

Subclasses:

 * R: +4 = River province, a province that possesses one or more rivers within its territory (e.g OTL Mesopotamia or OTL ingame Triple River Tribes basin).


 * B:+2 = Basic / Standard province, a province populated  by the main nations ethnicity, and loyal to the nations government, equally governed by the assigned leadership by the nation leaders.


 * C : +8 = Core province, a core province is an important, heavily populated region, the government seat or a capital region of a territory of the nation.


 * I:+6 = Island/Insular Province, a territory populated and located far from mainland, it can be a Basic Province or a Core province.


 * T :+1 = Territory province, a territory is a province sparsely populated by the main nation ethnicity and lacks major levels of infrastructure.


 * E: +3 = economic province = a region whose unique importance is solely for economic reasons.


 * MP: +5: Military Province= a territory or city that is populated mostly by military forces or nearby troops from the nation.

====Provincial Algo Score ====


 * A province cannot be small than 5px. for any smaller provinces (e.g 1 px in size) would unfairly affect the algorythm. The maximum size is 50px, increasing as the nation progresses to advanced tiers.

Charts

 * Chart 1: Tribal Governments




 * Chart 2: Early Governments


 * Chart 3: Developing Governments


 * Chart 4: Advanced Governments




 * Chart 5: Global Governments

Fenetia

 * Location: +5 Nearby
 * Strength: +10 Side with greater industry, +2 Control of the seas, Size of Army +5, Military built up +14, Expansion -14
 * Tactical Advantage: Attacker's advantage:+2
 * Provincial Score: CR (+12), 7B(+14)
 * Random:+3
 * Motive: Social Moral +6
 * Casus Belli: No casus belli -2
 * Total: 57

Dunyxarga

 * Location: +6 in the country withing yours
 * Strength: +8 Side with Greater Population, Size of the Army +5
 * Tactical Advantage: Defender's advantage +4
 * Provincial Score: C(+8), 5B(+10)
 * Random: +3
 * Motive: Provoked +8
 * Casus Belli: Self defense +4
 * Total: 56

Result

 * Fenetian Pyrrhic victory over the Dunyxargans, the King of the Dunyxargans after the series of wars in with fenetia decides to sue for peace towards the fenetians without claims from neither side.

Discussion

 * Problems? Sine dei gloriem &#34;Ex Initio Terrae&#34; (talk)

Discussion

 * 1) That's the current idea i've got to control which nation is going to which tier and avoid nations getting tiers faster than actually doable, and to avoid leaving other nations that should have indeed reached higher tiers behind in comparission.
 * 2) I'll also do the Score table. Which only mods can accomodate. although users may post their Scores in that cathegory.

Discussion
current table scores. Sine dei gloriem &#34;Ex Initio Terrae&#34; (talk) 04:55, January 17, 2014 (UTC)

World Population
I believe its fair to say we have at least 120 million people on the planet right know.

Most of them living under, Thalassian, Cevairian and Anatorayan rulling.


 * 1) Thalassia : 15 millions.
 * 2) Cevaire: 12.5 Millions.
 * 3) Anatoray-Alsache: 21.4 Millions. (I did the math Sine)
 * 4) Rivia: 8 Millions
 * 5) Hibernion: 6.5 Millions
 * 6) Zeedom:5.7 Millions
 * 7) Fenetia: 3 Millions.
 * 8) Drakomagic: 2.8 Millions.
 * 9) TTK: 1.5 Millions
 * 10) Argeri: 1.2 Millions
 * 11) Rest of the world. =51.9 million.

Comments

 * any

Thalassia:

 * Location: +5 Nearby, Bordering the same sea +2
 * Strength: Side with greater population +10, Side With greater Industry +8, Control of the seas +5,build up +30/0 = 30, Expansion -15, Economy +15, Size of the army: +6
 * Tactical Advantage: Attacker's advantage +2
 * Provincial Score: 0
 * Random: +7
 * Motive: Social Moral +6
 * Casus Belli: No casus belli -2
 * Total: 94 *0.2 = 112.2

Abarri Polis:

 * Location:+6 In the Country Within yours
 * Strength: Size of Army: +5, Allies in War (Aczoreb) +4
 * Tactical Advantage: Defender's advantage +4
 * Provincial Score: C(+5)
 * Random: +5
 * Motive: Life or death +10
 * Casus Belli: Self Defense +4
 * Total: 43

Result
Doubled the score of the Abarri means annexed and Aczorebia freed. Sine dei gloriem &#34;Ex Initio Terrae&#34; (talk) 04:15, January 27, 2014 (UTC)

Treaty of Ayorica (360-370)
This treaty is to define the spheres of influence of the Aecasian Empires (Cevaire, Thalassia)

Over the New found lands of the western Sea Referred for now as "Aquilomareia" ( Thalassian version of Cevairian Aguilomarans)

The current claims defined Thalassia's claim and Cevaires claim to be east and west halves of the continent respectively. with a few exceptions

The northern island on the western half being Thalassian while the North-Central Island being fully Cevairian.

The treaty is open to players in the known Aecasian world and atlantaean known world.

This are the implications of this treaty if recognized by a nation and or supported. The map will be added later.
 * 1) If a nation agrees on the treaty it will recognize and drop any claim beyond their current holdings in the continent as well. It also has to stay out of any war whose motive is based on the claims or invasion of the Aquilomareaian territories.
 * 2) If You can't hold your colonies or vassals or any territory you claim, they will be either divided between the other nations (if they are border by two nations or more) and or given to the Biggest nearby nation (If the holding is completely Surrounded by the other nation territories
 * 3) Support from all nation signing over the treaty to a nation that is being invaded by another one over the motive of gaining land in Aquilomareia.
 * 4) No military, Trading or Anysort of activity in other regions of Aquilomareia without permission of the other nation player in the region.

Claims:
Cevaire agrees with the components of the treaty and holds its claim over Alsache-Anatoray and the north-central island. Cookiedamage (talk) 04:05, January 30, 2014 (UTC)

The Kingdom agrees the (since im back) that in order for survival and as the most civilized peoples on the continent that the kigndom shouldnt be conquered and that Cevaire shall be unimpeded if looking elsewhere on the continent. Due to the huge population of the country its very likely that any attempted attack on the kingdom would result is huge casualties for both sides as well as large ethnic conflict. Anything to the east of us is pretty much free game and we wont really get involved. but for the sake of profitable long term trade, to prevent genocide, and a huge issue on the topic were definitively agreeing that unless certan circumstances present themselves we wont interfere with anything to our East. The nations to the North shall not be infringed upon either. These are our main requests (and considering the diseases and shit wont take me out and im back for good hopefully, then im just going to cross out anything you try against me implausibly anyways cause nobody is on the level of spain yet and the main nations are all essentially nearly on the same tech level.) The Unchallenged Conqueror #FP (Talk to Me)

We agree with the terms in an attempt to expand the sphere of Fenetia and for economic interests as well. Also we have to agree with the Aslache-Anatoreyans when it comes to this treaty, it is mainly for our eastern locations on the continent. We commence the new beginnings of an era of peace with this treay and exploration as well. So final verdict is: we agree. Ratc3333 Here, Prepare for Combat (talk) 08:55, January 31, 2014 (UTC)

Discussion:

 * Any ideas guys. Sine dei gloriem &#34;Ex Initio Terrae&#34; (talk)

Treaty of Alsache (370 - 380)
'''A treaty aimed at ending hostile relations between the Cevaireans, Thalassians, Fenetians, and Alsache-Anatorayans will be coming soon and will de delivered on this page before the 00:00 UTC turn end on this day, January 31, 2014. '''Cookiedamage (talk) 05:58, January 31, 2014 (UTC)

Main Body of the Treaty
In order to avoid a devastating war against the already debilitated Alsache-Anatorayans, the most glorious Queen Bedencia IV and her effective council have created a treaty to avoid a war of such a vibrantly large scale.

There are Ten conditions to this treaty.

The first condition being: Cevaire and Thalassia will renounce hostilities against Alsache-Anatoray as well as formally renouncing the claim of Alsache-Anatoray.

The second condition being: Alsache-Anatoray may not ally with Fenetia for 70 years upon the signing of the treaty.

The third condition being: Cevaire will be rewarded with universal access to Alsache-Anatorayan ports, as well as a significant trade partnership which will filter wealth into the Cevairean economy. Cevairean military ships may not stay at port for more than 4 months at a time.

The fourth condition being: All Alsache trade will be conducted using Cevairean commerce ships. Anatorayan trade will be left to the Anatorayans.

The fifth condition being: The Cevairean military will have universal access to Alsache-Anatoray's territory and will have access to forts and encampments. However, Cevairean soldiers may not stay in one fort for more than six months at a time.

The sixth condition being: Cevaire will hold claims to the lands of Leore, Immeria, and Aterra.

The seventh condition being: Thalassia will hold claims to the lands of Narviki and Corvin.

The eighth condition being: Fenetia will hold claims to the lands of Felencia and Larition,

The ninth condition being: Fenetia will have commercial access to all western, Alsache ports.

The tenth condition being: This treaty will only be valid upon the signatures of the diplomats of Cevaire, Thalassia, Fenetia, and Alsache-Anatoray

Signatures
The Realm of Cevaire, lead by Queen Bedencia IV, signs this treaty. Cookiedamage (talk) 21:49, January 31, 2014 (UTC)

The Fenetiran Republic, lead by Consul Jolerius II, signs this treaty. Ratc3333 Here, Prepare for Combat (talk) 23:07, January 31, 2014 (UTC)