Talk:Shattered Stars and Stripes: The New Deal

dibs on blue Hail Sean, Khan of Khans!  (Free potatoes) 15:18, April 9, 2015 (UTC)

Green. Spartian300 (talk) 16:44, April 9, 2015 (UTC)

The map is already made. I just need to upload it. This is Edge, He is a cool guy when he isn't too lazy to sign his real sig. Hit him up. 19:16, April 9, 2015 (UTC)

When is the game beginning? Morgan Freemen but With A Lamer Voice (talk) 18:55, April 12, 2015 (UTC)

Wensday. This is Edge, He is a cool guy when he isn't too lazy to sign his real sig. Hit him up. 19:23, April 12, 2015 (UTC)

Can I claim Nebraska? - QC

Good to see that you guys brought this back! Hit me up next time another SSS is started. CaptainCain (talk) 23:04, April 13, 2015 (UTC)

What time are we starting? Spartian300 (talk) 09:49, April 14, 2015 (UTC)

Friday. This is Edge, He is a cool guy when he isn't too lazy to sign his real sig. Hit him up. 18:49, April 14, 2015 (UTC)

you can change your nation before the game begins, but once it starts, you are stuck with it.

I joined as Kentucky, is that ok?

Also how do I make algorithims (since players need to make thEIR own algorithims) -QC

Standard Algorithm
Unlike last Game(s), all tiers, except tier 5, have caps.

Tier 1

 * 1) Allied States
 * 2) Pennslyvania
 * 3) Illinois
 * 4) Ohio
 * 5) California

Tier 2

 * 1) Texas
 * 2) Massachussets
 * 3) Michigan
 * 4) Indiana
 * 5) Washington
 * 6) Virgina
 * 7) Florida

Tier 3

 * 1) Missouri
 * 2) Louisianna
 * 3) Carolina
 * 4) Oregon
 * 5) Alabama
 * 6) Maryland
 * 7) Georgia
 * 8) Conneticut
 * 9) Mississippi
 * 10) Colorado

Tier 4

 * 1) Rhode Island
 * 2) New Hampsire
 * 3) Minnesota
 * 4) Oklahoma
 * 5) Maine
 * 6) Wisconsin
 * 7) Nebraska
 * 8) Utah
 * 9) Kentucky
 * DC
 * 1) Iowa
 * 2) Arizona

Tier 5
Any nation not listed above is tier 5

Military and Economy
+1 for each turn developed. This is then divided by your oppenent's scores and the final result is multipled based on your tier. Points last 20 turns.

NPC nations develop Military and then Economy and then infrastrucutre

Infrastructure
+2 for each turn developed. Developments last 25 turns

Development Multiplers

 * Due to the subjective nature of Power, it will be replaced with a more constant multipler.
 * Tier 1: *2.5 to the final devlopment score
 * Tier 2:*2 to the final devlopment score
 * Tier 3:*1.5 to the final devlopment score
 * Tier 4 and 5:*1 to the final devlopment score

Larger Economy
Yes:+5

No:-5

Even:0

Applies to Attacker only.

Larger Industry
Yes:+5

No:-5

Even:0

Applies to Attacker only.

Air Superiority
Yes:+5

No:-5

Even:0

Applies to Attacker only.

Naval Superiority
Yes:+5

No:-5

Even:0

Applies to Attacker only.

Other Bonuses

 * Defender Bonus:+5
 * Attacker Bonus:+2
 * Suprise attack:+4
 * Defender Prepared:+8

Motive

 * Economic (gains land/resources)+2
 * Strategic (Counters Rival's expansion, takes area of importance)+3
 * Enforce Political Hemogony:+5
 * Limiting potential rival: +4
 * Defending Core from non leathal attack:+5
 * Defending a territory from a non leathal attack:+3
 * Defending from a leathal Attack:+10
 * Defending from a "Major Enemy":+8
 * Defending from a "Major Enemy" with the intent to destroy your nation:+15
 * Attacking a "Major Enemy" with No intent to kill (IE Limit or weaken a major enemy):+8
 * Attacking a "Major Enemy" with the intent to Kill:+10
 * Counter Attacking Major enemy, regardless of motive:+10
 * Defending from a state that has WMDs, but does not have the intent to kill:+5
 * Defnding from a state that has WMDS that intends to kill:+8
 * Defending from a state that has used WMDs, regardless of the attackers motive:+10
 * Counter Attack:+4
 * Pre-Emptive Strike:+4
 * Aiding an Ally:+3
 * Taking a territory of Similar culture, but not part of nation:+5
 * MODS:
 * Democratic Gov Supported:+4
 * Non Demo Supported:+3
 * Gov Not Supported:-5
 * Gov in Anarchy:-20
 * Gov Neutral:+0
 * High Morale(High development scores, troops numbers are relitivly equal to or greater than oppenets, gov and war supported):+5
 * Low Morale(Lower scores, smaller troops, gov or war not supported):-5
 * WAR not supported:-3
 * Implausibility: -2 per impluasibility

Population
MODIFIERS:
 * Population less than 1 million:+0
 * Population greater than 1 million:+1
 * Population greater than 2 million:+2
 * Population greater than 3 million:+3
 * Population greater than 4 million:+4
 * Population greater than 5 million:+5
 * Population greater than 6 million:+6
 * Population greater than 7 million:+7
 * Population greater than 8 million:+8
 * Population greater than 9 million:+9
 * POpulation greater than 10 million:+10
 * Population greater than 15 million:+15
 * Population greater than 20 Million:+20
 * Population greater than 25 million:+25
 * Population greater than 35 million:+30
 * Larger Population:+2
 * 2-5x larger:+5
 * 5-9x larger:+8
 * 10x-15x larger:+12
 * 15x-20x larger:+15
 * 20x-30x larger:+25
 * Greater than 30x larger:+30

Technology

 * Far Better Tech:+10
 * Better Tech:+5
 * Slightly better Tech:+2
 * Evenly matched:+2 to both Sides
 * Worse tech:0

Climate and Geography

 * Crossing the Rocky Mountins:-15
 * Crossing the Appalican Mountins:-5
 * Invading a territory in the Desert:-10
 * Invading an area with extreme winters:-15
 * Invading a territory during the Dustbowl:-10
 * If you are invading a territory with similar climate/conditions to your home territory, then disregard the penelties.

+5

 * DC (DC)

+4

 * New York (New York)
 * Chicago (Illinois)
 * Phildealphea (Pennsylvania)
 * Detroit (Michigan)
 * Los Angeles(California)

+3

 * Toledo (Ohio)
 * Boston (Massachussets)
 * St Louis (Missouri)
 * Pitsburgh (Pennslyvania)

+2

 * Baltimore (Maryland)
 * Buffolo (New York)
 * Kansas City (Missouri)
 * Seattle (Washington)
 * Lansing (Michigan)
 * Pitsburgh (Pennslyvania)
 * Richmond (Virgina)
 * New Orleans (Louisianna)

+1

 * Dallas (Texas)
 * Albany (New York)
 * Richmond (Virgina)
 * Clevland (Ohio)
 * San Fransico (California)
 * El Paso (Texas)

Location
Goes by your center of power.
 * +25: Defender
 * +20: On Border
 * +15: Near Location of the War
 * +10: Distance between the war and center of power
 * +5: Far From Location of the war
 * +0: Other Side of the Country

Capitals
MODIFIERS:
 * +1 for every capital you hold
 * +1 for holding 2 capitals (Total of +3)
 * +3 for Holding 5 capitals
 * +10 for holding 10 capitals

Nations Per Side

 * Leader (L): Main nation, only 1 leader per war (any more is a coaltion algo):+20
 * Military Aider(M): Sends men and supplies:+10
 * Supplies (S): Sends weapons, food, medicine:+5
 * Political Support (P): Backs your nation up politically:+2

Number of Troops
MODIFIERS:
 * +1 for every 10,000 troops
 * More Troops:+2
 * Signifigantly more Troops (2-3 times more)+5
 * 3-5 times more troops:+10
 * 5-10 times more troops:+20

Recent Wars

 * -3 for every year you are an L or CL in the past 15 turns
 * -2 for every year you are an M or CM in the past 15 years
 * -1 for every year you are an S or CS in the past 15 years
 * -10 for every year you where at Total War for the past 10 years, after which, you recive a -5 for every year for the following 5 years.

Vassals/Puppets

 * Vassals and Puppets can be formed as the Game goes on, and they can be used in war at a price
 * -10 if a vassal or puppet is a leader
 * -2 for every vassal sending military aid for the first 3 vassals
 * -3 for each additonal vassal or puppet sending military aid
 * -1 for each vassal sending supplies for the first 3 vassals
 * -2 for each addtional vassal or puppet sending supplies

Popular Revolt, Major Enemy, Total War

 * Mods may grant nations a popular revolt or major enemy bonus, and players may activate a Total War Bonus
 * Popular revolt lasts 5-15 turns and grants each nation a 1.5 multipler for any war.
 * Major Enemy lasts an unspecifed period of time and grants a nation a 1.5 multipler against certin nations
 * Total War may be activated by a player at anytime, and grants the player a 1.5 multiplier in that war. AS seen however, this can have drastic draw backs. Only usable starting in 1935.
 * Major enemy and popular revolt do not stack, however popular revolt/major and total war may both be used at once.

Fronts
A nation may be fighting on more than 1 fronts. Divide your Military and Economy Scores by the number of Fronts and -20 per front

If a nation has 0 development scores, -35 per front

Total
Add up and factor in any modifiers and you get the score for both sides

Results
Mods will handle this.

Tier
Average your tiers. So for example, 2 tier 1s, a tier 5, and 2 tier 2s would get an average of 2.2. In this case, you round, meaning the Coaltion's Tier is 2. Points for tier remains the same as the Standard Algo

Military and Economy
Coaltion Total for this. Then divide by the other sides score and multiply as normal

Infrastrucutre (Defensive Coaltions only)
The nation that is being invaded is what is counted

Strategic Modifers

 * Same as Normal.

Motive
Coaltion Average for this.

Population
Population of the leadering nations. Average their score and round. (New York gets +10, Nevada gets +0, the Coaliton gets +5 and then modifiers)

Tech
Same as normal

Climate and Geography
same as normal

Nations Per Side

 * Coaliton Leader (CL): The back bone of the coaliton: Leads the nations and contributes the most to the war (Example: UK, US, and USSR in WW2 for the Allies, Germany and Japan for the Axis):+10
 * Coaliton Memeber (CM): Contributes men and supplies, may help lead the war, but it is not a major power in the war (Canada in WW2 for the allies, Italy for the Axis):+5
 * Coaliton Supplier (CS): Supplies weapons and other nessecites: +2

Vassals and Puppets
Same as normal

Recent Wars
Same as normal algo

Location
+25 to defender and average location score for attacker.

Troops
Same as normal

Capitals
Same as normal

Specials
Same as normal

Fronts
Same as normal

Popular Revolt, Total War, and Major enemy
To get Popular revolt and major enemy every nation in the coaltion must have the requirments. For total war, if one nation declares total war and the others don't, the nation that declared total war has it's scores added twice before divison.

Total
Add up and the bigger score wins

result
Covered By mods

Algo Template
COPY AND PASTE IN SOURCE MODE

Attacker
Total:
 * Tier:
 * Military Developement:
 * Economy Development
 * Strategic Modifers
 * Motive:
 * Motive
 * Modifiers
 * Population:
 * Technology:
 * Climate and Geography:
 * Location:
 * Special Locations:
 * Nations per Side:
 * Number of Troops:
 * Recent Wars:
 * Fronts:

Defender
Total
 * Tier:
 * Military Developement:
 * Economy Development:
 * Infrastrucutre:
 * Strategic Modifers:
 * Motive:
 * Motive
 * Modifiers
 * Population:
 * Technology:
 * Climate and Geography:
 * Location:
 * Special Locations:
 * Nations per Side:
 * Number of Troops:
 * Recent Wars:
 * Fronts:

Nominations for Mod
Upvoteanthology

I would like to nominate Upvoteanthology for modship in SSSND Hail Sean, Khan of Khans!  (Free potatoes) 18:42, April 15, 2015 (UTC)

I second that. Spartian300 (talk) 08:07, April 16, 2015 (UTC)

Up is legit. She helps out a lot on things, and is pretty enthusiastic as well. I say go for it. Saturn120 19:25, April 16, 2015 (UTC)

Wait, up is a girl? Spartian300 (talk) 19:37, April 16, 2015 (UTC)

Spar, yes, upvote is a girl. Also I support her modship Fires ofdoom 00:14, April 17, 2015 (UTC)

I second this. ;)   Oi mate,   did someone say Texas? 

TechnicallyIAmSean
I would like to nominate TechnicallyIAmSean for Modship in Shattered Stars and Stripes: The New Deal, having experience with the previous games of the Franchise and sometimes, his witty personality. Graham Industries. Creating the future, today. (talk) 19:26, April 19, 2015 (UTC)

I accept this nomination and thank Ace for nominating me. Hail Sean, Khan of Khans! (Free potatoes)

19:32, April 19, 2015 (UTC)

Daxus Inferno
I'd like to nominate myself. I feel this game has too few mods to handle this many players and problems may soon arise. I'm a generally fair mod and mainly spend my time responding as NPCs, cleaning up ASB plots, and making sure the map is always up-to-date. Morgan Freemen but With A Lamer Voice (talk) 20:21, April 19, 2015 (UTC)

I have like 0 athority, but I second that

Bruh, this is a vote. You would at least have 1 authority. Hail Sean, Khan of Khans! (Free potatoes)

Requests for upgrades
If you belive your nation should be in a different location on the tiers list, or if you think a city should be moved up or down, do so here.

Issues
I have some major issues with some of the Tiers. I'll start in order

Tier 1
I don't think Ohio should be Tier 1. It's a Mid-West state with a notable center of industry and population but nothing else; their real power is that they vote super early. I think Ohio should be Tier 3.

Tier 3
I literally have no idea why Oklahoma would be on this list. At this time it barely has a sizeable population and is being ravaged by the Dust Bowl. Oklahoma should obviously be Tier 5.

Colorado also has no reason to be this tier. At this time it also had a fledgling population, no real industry, and the pains of the Dust Bowl I think Colorado should be Tier 4

Tier 4
Neither Dakota should be on here. No real industry and no real population, even to this day. Dakotas being Tier 4 are more of misfits than Oklahoma being Tier 3. They should both be Tier 5.

Montana should also be Tier 5. Again, no real industry or population.

Utah should also be Tier 5. It does have more of a population but it has few resources and most of the state is an unusable wasteland.

Edge's Response
The tiers is based off of how a nation would do in an algorithim if it had no player interaction , which is why Ohio is so high up. While Ohio may only have a few centers of industry and population, it still has the fourth largest popultion at this point and one of the highest industrial outputs. Ohio stays in tier 1.

Keep in mind that, according to the 1930 US census, Oklahoma outpopulated Louisiana, South Carolina, Florida, Washington, Oregon, and more, so to make the claim that it has barely a sizable population means that you must make the same claim for those nations. Also keep in mind the fact that the Dust Storm doesn't start picking up until this year in terms of gameplay. PBS states that there where 14 dust storms in 1932, but they began to pick up in 1933 when there was 38. This algo places nations where they would be as of Midnight of January First, 1933.

The tier list in this game is comparative. The Tier list essentially takes each nation and says "Who would win if these two went to war with no major determining factors." So take Ohio for example. Pit it in a 1 one 1 conflict with any nation in tier 3. Assume both sides are stable, neither have popular revolt/other bonuses, neither have incompetent leadership, and that weather conditions are perfect for combat. You will find that almost always, Ohio wins the war.

Of course, there are a lot of grey spaces in this tier list. The example you bring up with Colorado is a perfect example of this. Colorado could be in either tier, but because of the number of nations allowed in each tier, it was allowed in tier 3. If I made the number of nations in tier 3 smaller, Colorado moves down. If I make it bigger, other nations move up. The Tier list is desgined this way because if I didn't do it like this, only a few states would actually be decent. The way you want me to do it is to have it be more subjective than comparitive. Doing it that way would have New York, Pennslyvania, and Illinois in Tier 1, and then California, Michigan, and Texas in tier 2. Most of the nations would then fall into tier 4 or 5. While that may be historically accurate, no one would want to play that. And while I would like to make the game as accurate as possible, it's not going to last if it has no one to play it.

#PraiseRoosevelt. 19:52, April 17, 2015 (UTC)

Yeah, I'm Tier two! Spartian300 (talk) 20:09, April 17, 2015 (UTC)

Oh wait, nevermind. Spartian300 (talk) 20:11, April 17, 2015 (UTC)

Test post
z

Californian Federation
Total: 89.25
 * Tier: +10
 * Military Developement: 1/0=1*2.5=2.5
 * Economy Development: 1/2*2,5=1.25
 * Strategic Modifers:+12
 * Motive: +7
 * Strategic: +3
 * +4
 * Population: 6+8=+14
 * Technology: +2
 * Climate and Geography: 0
 * Location: +10
 * Special Locations: LA(4)+SF(1)+1 capital=+6
 * Nations per Side: Cali(L)=+20
 * Number of Troops: +2.5
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Fronts: 0

Oregon and Friends
Total: 78.6
 * Tier: +2
 * Military Developement: nope
 * Economy Development: 4/1=4*1.5=6
 * Infrastrucutre: +2
 * Strategic Modifers:+5
 * Motive: +7.5
 * Defending core for non-lethal I guess?: +5
 * +4
 * Washinton Motive:+3
 * Modifier:+3
 * Population: +2
 * Technology:+0
 * Climate and Geography: 0
 * Location: +25
 * Special Locations: 2 capitals=+2+2=+4
 * Nations per Side: Oregon(CL) Washinton (CL) =+20
 * Number of Troops: +3.1+2
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Fronts: 0

Result
6% max

3% in a year

4% in 2

Disscussion
Basically

Cali can still choose to send more troops

Ohio
Total:101.5
 * Tier:+8
 * Military Developement:3/3=1*2.5=2.5
 * Economy Development:2/2=1*2.5=2.5
 * Strategic Modifers:+2+5
 * Motive:8
 * Motive:4
 * Modifiers:4
 * Population:6+2
 * Technology:+2
 * Climate and Geography:0
 * Location:+20
 * Special Locations:+4
 * Nations per Side:Ohio (L) ASA (S) Indiana (M)=+35
 * Number of Troops:+2.5+2
 * Recent Wars:0
 * Fronts:0

Michigan
Total:31.5
 * Tier:+3.5
 * Military Developement:1/2=.5*2=1
 * Economy Development:1*2=1
 * Infrastrucutre:
 * Strategic Modifers:+5
 * Motive:
 * Motive:10
 * Modifiers:0 (Gov just came out of a Civil War, not going to be univiersally supported)
 * Population:+4
 * Technology:+2
 * Climate and Geography:0
 * Location:+25
 * Special Locations:+4+2=6
 * Nations per Side:Michigan:+25
 * Number of Troops:1.5
 * Recent Wars:-3
 * Fronts:0

Result
52% max

26% in 1

Eastern Front
Total: 73.5
 * Tier: +12
 * Military Development: +2/2=1/1=1*2.5=2.5
 * Economy Development: +0
 * Strategic Modifiers: +7
 * Motive: +2
 * Motive: +0
 * Modifiers: +5
 * Population: +7+2
 * Technology: +2
 * Climate and Geography: -0
 * Location: +20
 * Special Locations: +5+1
 * Nations per Side: Illinois (L) +20
 * Number of Troops: +2+2
 * Recent Wars: NA
 * Fronts:2

Michigan
Total:31.5
 * Tier:+3.5
 * Military Developement:1/2=.5*2=1
 * Economy Development:1*2=1
 * Infrastrucutre:
 * Strategic Modifers:+5
 * Motive:
 * Motive:10
 * Modifiers:0 (Gov just came out of a Civil War, not going to be univiersally supported)
 * Population:+4
 * Technology:+2
 * Climate and Geography:0
 * Location:+25
 * Special Locations:+4+2=6
 * Nations per Side:Michigan:+25
 * Number of Troops:1.5
 * Recent Wars:-3
 * Fronts:0

Result
40% max

20% in a year

30% in 2

33% in 3

Illonois & Ohio
Total: 78.5
 * Tier: +12
 * Military Development: +2/2=1/1=1*2.5=2.5
 * Economy Development: +0
 * Strategic Modifiers: +12
 * Motive: +2
 * Motive: +0
 * Modifiers: +5
 * Population: +7+5
 * Technology: +2
 * Climate and Geography: -0
 * Location: +20
 * Special Locations: +5+1
 * Nations per Side: Illinois (L) +20
 * Number of Troops: +2+5
 * Recent Wars: NA
 * Fronts:2

Wisconsin & Michigan
Total: 63
 * Tier: +.5
 * Military Development: 1/2=.5*1=.5
 * Economy Development: +1
 * Infrastructure development: +2
 * Strategic Modifiers: +5
 * Motive: +9
 * Motive: +5
 * Modifiers: +4
 * Population: +2
 * Technology: +2
 * Climate and Geography: -0
 * Location: +25
 * Special Locations: +1
 * Nations per Side: Wisconsin (L) +20
 * Number of Troops: +1
 * Recent Wars: NA
 * Fronts: NA

result
10% max

5% in a year

8% in 2

disscusion
This war is just Illonois Vs. Wisconsin. Neither Ohio or Michagan is involved

About that. See, by invading Wisconsin while you're at war with me, you brought them into the war. Spartian300 (talk) 15:18, April 20, 2015 (UTC)

Result
Michigan collapses in a year

This algo is irrelevant. Wisconsion was invaded to, so it should be changed. Spartian300 (talk) 10:31, April 20, 2015 (UTC)

This algo factors that in. #PraiseRoosevelt. 15:17, April 20, 2015 (UTC)

And why is my score so low? It should be better then that. I mean, the current government is seen as liberators from the UFM. Spartian300 (talk) 15:19, April 20, 2015 (UTC)

Attacker

 * Tier: +4
 * Military Development: +3/0=3*1=3
 * Economy Development: +2/2*1=2
 * Strategic Modifers:+12
 * Motive: +6
 * Motive:3
 * Modifiers: +3+5
 * Population: +3 + 10
 * Technology: +2
 * Climate and Geography: 0 (same climate)
 * Location: +10
 * Special Locations: +3 (2 Capitals)
 * Nations per Side: +20
 * Number of Troops: +2.5+5
 * Recent Wars: -10 for Dust Bowl
 * Fronts: 0

Total: 75.5

Defender

 * Tier: +1
 * Military Development:0
 * Economy Development:2/2=1*1=1
 * Infrastrucutre: 2
 * Larger Economy: 0
 * Larger Industry: 0
 * Motive: +10
 * Motive
 * Modifiers: +4
 * Population: 0
 * Technology: +2
 * Climate and Geography: 0 (Same climate)
 * Location: +25
 * Special Locations: +1
 * Nations per Side: + 20
 * Number of Troops: +1
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Fronts: 0

Total: 67

Result
6% max

3% in a year

4% in 2

Disscussion
I think Iowa might deserve popular revolt bonus, but that's up to the mods. Also, I'm not sure how development works for NPCs. Shikata ga nai! 23:43, April 19, 2015 (UTC)

Who are you attacking here?

+