Talk:Shattered Stars and Stripes: The New Deal

<p dat dibs on blue Hail Sean, Khan of Khans! (Free potatoes) 15:18, April 9, 2015 (UTC)

Green. Spartian300 (talk) 16:44, April 9, 2015 (UTC)

The map is already made. I just need to upload it. This is Edge, He is a cool guy when he isn't too lazy to sign his real sig. Hit him up. 19:16, April 9, 2015 (UTC)

When is the game beginning? Morgan Freemen but With A Lamer Voice (talk) 18:55, April 12, 2015 (UTC)

Wensday. This is Edge, He is a cool guy when he isn't too lazy to sign his real sig. Hit him up. 19:23, April 12, 2015 (UTC)

Can I claim Nebraska? - QC

Good to see that you guys brought this back! Hit me up next time another SSS is started. CaptainCain (talk) 23:04, April 13, 2015 (UTC)

What time are we starting? Spartian300 (talk) 09:49, April 14, 2015 (UTC)

Friday. This is Edge, He is a cool guy when he isn't too lazy to sign his real sig. Hit him up. 18:49, April 14, 2015 (UTC)

you can change your nation before the game begins, but once it starts, you are stuck with it.

I joined as Kentucky, is that ok?

Also how do I make algorithims (since players need to make thEIR own algorithims) -QC

Prelude
The new algo appears to be kinda defender biased and fails to acuratly reflect coalitions. As a result, I have decided to redesgin the algo I have decided to look at the most popular games and see what makes those algos good. This is what I have come up with

Military Tiers
Tiers will be completly redone to be more along the lines of AvA. There are 3 types of Tiers. Military, Industry, and Technology

Tier 1 (10)

 * ASA
 * Ohio
 * Union of the South

Tier 1.5 (9)

 * California

Tier 2 (8)

 * NAU
 * Virgina

Tier 3 (6)

 * Mississippi Confederation
 * Indiana
 * Carolina

Tier 3.5 (5)

 * Alabama
 * Wisconsin
 * Massachussets
 * South Michigan
 * North Michigan
 * Georgia
 * Florida
 * Northern Mexico
 * Central Mexico
 * Mexican Republican State (Mexico City and Surrounding Provinces)
 * Yucatan
 * Southern Mexico
 * Veracruz
 * Caribbean States

Tier 4 (4)

 * Conneticut
 * Minnesota
 * Colorado
 * Maryland
 * Tennesse
 * Pittsburgh
 * Philadelphia
 * Quebec
 * Ontario

Tier 4.5 (3)

 * Nebraska
 * Kansas
 * Oklahoma
 * Utah
 * Rhode Island
 * West Virginia
 * Dakota

Tier 5 (2)

 * All the Rest

Tier 1 (10)

 * ASA
 * Ohio
 * NAU

Tier 2 (8)

 * Union of the South
 * California

Tier 2.5 (7)

 * Virginia
 * Indiana

Tier 3 (6)

 * Massachussets
 * Florida
 * Carolina
 * Confed of the Western Miss
 * South Michigan

Tier 3.5 (5)

 * North Michigan
 * Georgia
 * Pittsburgh
 * Philadelphia
 * Northern Mexico
 * Central Mexico
 * Mexican Republican State (Mexico City and Surrounding Provinces)
 * Yucatan
 * Southern Mexico
 * Veracruz
 * Quebec
 * Ontario

Tier 4 (4)

 * Alabama
 * Missouri
 * Maryland
 * Tennesse
 * Baja California
 * Caribbean States

Tier 4.5 (3)

 * Conneticut
 * Minnesota
 * Colorado
 * West Virginia

Tier 5 (2)

 * Everyone Else

Technology Tiers
Only 3 tiers here for now. Will expand as the game goes on

Tier 1 (10)

 * ASA
 * Union of the South
 * California
 * Ohio
 * NAU

Tier 2.(8)

 * Confed of the Western Miss
 * Michigan
 * Indiana
 * Massachussets
 * Rhode Island
 * Conneticut
 * Oregon
 * Virginia
 * Carolina
 * Florida
 * All Canadian Provinces

Tier 2.5 (7)

 * Pittsburgh
 * Philadelphia
 * South Michigan
 * North Michingan

Tier 3 (6)

 * Alabama
 * Deleware
 * Mississippi
 * Florida
 * Georgia
 * Vermont
 * New Hampshire
 * Maine
 * Tennese
 * Iowa
 * Utah
 * Dakota
 * West Virgina
 * All Mexican States
 * Caribbean States
 * Dakota

Tier 5 (2)
Everything else

Strength
This is a combination of Development and Nations per side
 * For a Leader, you take each Score (Military, Industry, Technology) and add it up
 * For a Military aider, take 3/4ths of the nations scores
 * For a supplier, take 1/2 of the nations Technology and Industry Score
 * For A vassal, use 3/4's of the vassal's tier before calculation

Number of Troops
Pretty much the same as before
 * +1 for every 10,000 troops

Population
MODIFIERS:
 * Population less than 1 million:+0
 * Population greater than 1 million:+1
 * Population greater than 2 million:+2
 * Population greater than 3 million:+3
 * Population greater than 4 million:+4
 * Population greater than 5 million:+5
 * Population greater than 6 million:+6
 * Population greater than 7 million:+7
 * Population greater than 8 million:+8
 * Population greater than 9 million:+9
 * POpulation greater than 10 million:+10
 * Population greater than 15 million:+15
 * Population greater than 20 Million:+20
 * Population greater than 25 million:+25
 * Population greater than 35 million:+30
 * Larger Population:+2
 * 2-5x larger:+5
 * 5-9x larger:+8
 * 10x-15x larger:+12
 * 15x-20x larger:+15
 * 20x-30x larger:+25
 * Greater than 30x larger:+30

Location
Here is another major difference:

This section is subject to greater reform
 * +5 For Defender
 * +4 for a nation who's core in on the border
 * +3 for for a nation who's core is near the war
 * +2 for a nation who's core is far from the war
 * +1 for a nation who's core is on the other side of the nation

Chance
Take the one's digit in your edit count at the time you declared war. For NPC's use the ten digit in your edit count

Strategic Modifers

 * Attackers Only:
 * Moderate Air superiority:+5
 * Massive Air Superiority:+8
 * No Air Superiority:-3
 * Moderate Naval Superiority:+5
 * Massive Naval Superiority:+8
 * No Naval Superiority:-3
 * Superise Attack:+6
 * Defender Only:
 * Defensive Line formed:+5
 * Fighting in a familer territory (owned for more than 5 turns):+2
 * Forces Preocupied (IE Fighting a war elsewhere):-3
 * Both Sides
 * More Troops:+2
 * Signifigantly More Troops:+5 (2-5 times greater)
 * Army Dwarfs Opponents: +10 (at least 6 times greater

Motive
Slightly different. You may now have as many main motives as you want, but the scores for your main motives are averaged together. So if you have "Enforcing Political Hegemony" and "Counter Attack", leaving your main motive score at +6. YOU MUST NOW LIST WHAT YOUR MOTIVE IS IN THE ALGO
 * Economic (gains land/resources)+2
 * Strategic (Counters Rival's expansion, takes area of importance)+3
 * Enforce Political Hemogony:+5
 * Limiting potential rival: +4
 * Defending Core from non leathal attack:+5
 * Defending a territory from a non leathal attack:+3
 * Defending from a leathal Attack:+10
 * Defending from a "Major Enemy":+8
 * Defending from a "Major Enemy" with the intent to destroy your nation:+15
 * Attacking a "Major Enemy" with No intent to kill (IE Limit or weaken a major enemy):+8
 * Attacking a "Major Enemy" with the intent to Kill:+10
 * Counter Attacking Major enemy, regardless of motive:+10
 * Defending from a state that has WMDs, but does not have the intent to kill:+5
 * Defnding from a state that has WMDS that intends to kill:+8
 * Defending from a state that has used WMDs, regardless of the attackers motive:+10
 * Counter Attack:+4
 * Pre-Emptive Strike:+4
 * Aiding an Ally:+3
 * Taking a territory of Similar culture, but not part of nation:+5
 * MODS:
 * Democratic Gov Supported:+4
 * Non Demo Supported:+3
 * Gov Not Supported:-5
 * Gov in Anarchy:-20
 * Gov Neutral:+0
 * High Morale(High development scores, troops numbers are relitivly equal to or greater than oppenets, gov and war supported):+5
 * Low Morale(Lower scores, smaller troops, gov or war not supported):-5
 * WAR not supported:-3
 * Implausibility: -2 per impluasibility

Popular Revolt, Major Enemy, Total War

 * Mods may grant nations a popular revolt or major enemy bonus, and players may activate a Total War Bonus
 * Popular revolt lasts 5-15 turns and grants each nation a 1.5 multiplier for any war.
 * Major Enemy lasts an unspecified period of time and grants a nation a 1.5 multiplier against certain nations
 * Total War can be activated by the player at times of Dire need and it grants a 1.2 multiplier for the remainder of the war.

Capitals
MODIFIERS:
 * +1 for every capital you hold
 * +1 for holding 2 capitals (Total of +3)
 * +3 for Holding 5 capitals
 * +10 for holding 10 capitals

+5

 * DC (DC)

+4

 * New York (New York)
 * Chicago (Illinois)
 * Philadelphia (Pennslyvania)
 * Detroit (South Michigan)
 * Los Angeles(California)
 * Halifax

+3

 * Toledo (Ohio)
 * Boston (Massachussets)
 * St Louis (Illinois)
 * Ontario

+2

 * Baltimore (Maryland)
 * Buffolo (New York)
 * Kansas City (Kansas)
 * Seattle (Washington)
 * Lansing (South Michigan.)
 * Pitsburgh (Pennslyvania)
 * New Orleans (Louisianna)
 * Quebec
 * Mexico City

+1

 * Dallas (Texas)
 * Albany (New York)
 * Richmond (Virgina)
 * Clevland (Ohio)
 * San Fransico (California)
 * El Paso (Texas)

Multiple Fronts

 * Leaders:
 * Leading on multiple fronts:-30 per front
 * Leading on 1 front, providing military aid to another:-15 per front of Military Aid
 * Leading on 1 front, providing supplies to another:-5 per front of Supplies
 * Military Aiders:
 * Your military aider is leading on a differnt front:-5 for front they are leading
 * Your Military aider is providing military aid on a different front:-3 per front of military aid
 * Your Military aider is providing supplies on a differnt front:-2 per front of supplies
 * Supplier:
 * Your Supplier is leading on another front:-3 per front they are leading on
 * Your Supplier is providing Military aid on another front:-2 per front
 * Your Supplier is providing supplies on another front:-1 per front

Recent Wars

 * -3 for every year you are an L or CL in the past 15 turns
 * -2 for every year you are an M or CM in the past 15 years
 * -1 for every year you are an S or CS in the past 15 years
 * -10 for every year you where at Total War for the past 5 years, after which, you recive a -5 for every year for the following 5 years.
 * NOTE: After using total war, you can not use it again until you have a recent war penelty of 0.

Puppets and Vassals

 * -1 for the first 3 puppets and vassals
 * -5 for each following puppet or vassal.

Total
Add everything Up

Result
Mods will handle this

Algo Template
COPY AND PASTE IN SOURCE MODE

Attacker
Total:
 * Tier:
 * Military Developement:
 * Economy Development
 * Strategic Modifers
 * Motive:
 * Motive
 * Modifiers
 * Population:
 * Technology:
 * Climate and Geography:
 * Location:
 * Special Locations:
 * Nations per Side:
 * Number of Troops:
 * Recent Wars:
 * Fronts:

Defender
Total
 * Tier:
 * Military Developement:
 * Economy Development:
 * Infrastrucutre:
 * Strategic Modifers:
 * Motive:
 * Motive
 * Modifiers
 * Population:
 * Technology:
 * Climate and Geography:
 * Location:
 * Special Locations:
 * Nations per Side:
 * Number of Troops:
 * Recent Wars:
 * Fronts:

Nominations for Mod
Upvoteanthology

I would like to nominate Upvoteanthology for modship in SSSND Hail Sean, Khan of Khans! (Free potatoes) 18:42, April 15, 2015 (UTC)

I second that. Spartian300 (talk) 08:07, April 16, 2015 (UTC)

Up is legit. She helps out a lot on things, and is pretty enthusiastic as well. I say go for it. Saturn120 19:25, April 16, 2015 (UTC)

Wait, up is a girl? Spartian300 (talk) 19:37, April 16, 2015 (UTC)

Spar, yes, upvote is a girl. Also I support her modship Firesofdoom 00:14, April 17, 2015 (UTC)

I second this. ;)   Oi mate,   did someone say Texas? 

TechnicallyIAmSean
I would like to nominate TechnicallyIAmSean for Modship in Shattered Stars and Stripes: The New Deal, having experience with the previous games of the Franchise and sometimes, his witty personality. Graham Industries. Creating the future, today. (talk) 19:26, April 19, 2015 (UTC)

I accept this nomination and thank Ace for nominating me. Hail Sean, Khan of Khans! (Free potatoes)

19:32, April 19, 2015 (UTC)

Daxus Inferno
I'd like to nominate myself. I feel this game has too few mods to handle this many players and problems may soon arise. I'm a generally fair mod and mainly spend my time responding as NPCs, cleaning up ASB plots, and making sure the map is always up-to-date. Morgan Freemen but With A Lamer Voice (talk) 20:21, April 19, 2015 (UTC)

I have like 0 athority, but I second that

Bruh, this is a vote. You would at least have 1 authority. Hail Sean, Khan of Khans! (Free potatoes)

This isn't a vote, this is a fourm where people speak for or against potential mods. #PraiseRoosevelt. 20:06, April 21, 2015 (UTC)

People's Republic of Washington upgrade request
I would like to request that (due to the Washington-Oregon merger), that the nation be provided access to a tier change, due to the economic, military and technological combination of the 2 nations. As a result, it should be correct that a Tier Upgrade could be done, and on behalf of the moderators, I would love to request this.

Need to know what tier you are looking to enter.

Californian Federation
The Californian Federation has been improving it's military since the start of the game and has also gained some military stuff from the recent annexation of Washington. It's definitely as developed as Texas regarding military, and most likely nearing Ohio. It also started as a tier 1 in military IIRC, but then was dropped from that tier. In general, California should go up another tier.

California was never tier 1 in military, at least I never put it there. And to say that you should move up in tier cause You are more developed than Virignia and Michigan isn't enough. You need to be as developed as the ASA, Union of the South, or Ohio to be in tier 1. #PraiseRoosevelt. 21:16, April 27, 2015 (UTC)

Sorry, put the focus on the wrong part. Hail Sean, Khan of Khans! (Free potatoes) 21:29, April 27, 2015 (UTC)

I am still hesitant to move you up because most of the Military-Industrial build up in Califronia took place During WW2 by the Federal Governmnet. I would honsetly say Tier 2 or making a tier 1.5 would be better fit for California. #PraiseRoosevelt. 13:51, April 28, 2015 (UTC)

Seems legit Hail Sean, Khan of Khans!  (Free potatoes) 14:18, April 29, 2015 (UTC)

Michigan
I want an upgrade for Detroit please. It has been the focus of my rebuilding efforts. Spartian300 (talk) 21:21, April 27, 2015 (UTC)

Detroit will recover when your recent war penelty goes down. Beyond that It is already as high as it can go. (DC is the only +5 that is allowed) #PraiseRoosevelt. 13:53, April 28, 2015 (UTC)

Military
The two Pennslyvanias where, when united, a tier 1 nation in military. Obvioulsy, because they are subjagated to the ASA, they where imited in military. However, with the recent reunion of Pennslyvania, I belive that they should move up to tier 3. They have recived military gear and contracts from the ASA proper, a tier 1 nation. In terms of Manpower, United Pennslyvia outmanned to former Michigan Republic, a tier 2 nation.
 * From:4
 * To:3

Tier 3 seems fair, granted(if Up or Dax approves) Hail Sean, Khan of Khans!  (Free potatoes) 14:18, April 29, 2015 (UTC)

Industry
For many of the same reasons above, I belive the United Pennslyvania should be at least tier 3 in industry.
 * From:3.5
 * Tier 3

Ditto as above, tier 3 is cool, if Up or Dax approves its garanted Hail Sean, Khan of Khans!  (Free potatoes) 14:18, April 29, 2015 (UTC)

military
The reason is mainly because of military buildup and new territory. I'm pretty sure The tiers were redone when I only possessed Illonois and 1/2 on Missori. Since then I have gained all of Missori, Wisconsin, Iowa, plus the upper peninsula as well as several protectorates. The newly annexed territory's seem like they should be able to bump me up to at least tier 1.5, or maybe even tier 1. That combined with the fact my military has been built up is my reasoning for a higher tier in military.
 * from: tier 2
 * to: tier: 1.5 or 1

Test post
z

Californian Federation
Total: 89.25
 * Tier: +10
 * Military Developement: 1/0=1*2.5=2.5
 * Economy Development: 1/2*2,5=1.25
 * Strategic Modifers:+12
 * Motive: +7
 * Strategic: +3
 * +4
 * Population: 6+8=+14
 * Technology: +2
 * Climate and Geography: 0
 * Location: +10
 * Special Locations: LA(4)+SF(1)+1 capital=+6
 * Nations per Side: Cali(L)=+20
 * Number of Troops: +2.5
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Fronts: 0

Oregon and Friends
Total: 78.6
 * Tier: +2
 * Military Developement: nope
 * Economy Development: 4/1=4*1.5=6
 * Infrastrucutre: +2
 * Strategic Modifers:+5
 * Motive: +7.5
 * Defending core for non-lethal I guess?: +5
 * +4
 * Washinton Motive:+3
 * Modifier:+3
 * Population: +2
 * Technology:+0
 * Climate and Geography: 0
 * Location: +25
 * Special Locations: 2 capitals=+2+2=+4
 * Nations per Side: Oregon(CL) Washinton (CL) =+20
 * Number of Troops: +3.1+2
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Fronts: 0

Result
6% max

3% in a year

4% in 2

Disscussion
Basically

Cali can still choose to send more troops

Coalition Forces

 * Tier:+8
 * Military Developement:3/1=3*2.5=7.5
 * Economy Development:2/1=2*2.5=5
 * Strategic Modifers:+2+5
 * Motive:8
 * Motive:4
 * Modifiers:4
 * Population:6+2
 * Technology:+2
 * Climate and Geography:0
 * Location:+20
 * Special Locations:+4
 * Nations per Side:Ohio (L) CoWM (S)=+25
 * Number of Troops:+2.5+2
 * Recent Wars:0
 * Fronts:0

Michigan
Total:78.66*1.5=117.99
 * Tier:+3.5
 * Military Developement:1/3=.33*2=.66
 * Economy Development:1/2=.5*2=1
 * Infrastrucutre:
 * Strategic Modifers:+5
 * Motive:
 * Motive:10
 * Modifiers:+3
 * Population:+4
 * Technology:+2
 * Climate and Geography:0
 * Location:+25
 * Special Locations:+4+2=6
 * Nations per Side:Michigan:+20
 * Number of Troops:1.5
 * Recent Wars:-3
 * Fronts:0

Result
The coalition takes 22% in 2 years

See below

Disscussion
So beacuse of the Popular revolt, The Coalition can now take 14% in 3 years and 17% in 4

Battle Lines Stall, and Ohio takes 14% of Michigan before Michigan forces can stop them. Counter attack is needed for Michigan to reclaim any land. but I would say that this war is over.

Can I counter attack? Spartian300 (talk) 15:48, April 22, 2015 (UTC)

You can but you would lose the popular revolt. #PraiseRoosevelt. 15:49, April 22, 2015 (UTC)

Which means? Spartian300 (talk) 15:50, April 22, 2015 (UTC)

That 1.5 that allowed you to win? that's the popular revolt. #PraiseRoosevelt. 16:10, April 22, 2015 (UTC)

Illinois
Total: 44.65
 * Tier: +8
 * Military Development: +2/3=.66/1=.66*2.5=1.65
 * Economy Development: +0
 * Strategic Modifiers: +7
 * Motive: +3
 * Motive: +0
 * Modifiers: +5
 * Population: +7+2
 * Technology: +2
 * Climate and Geography: -0
 * Location: +20
 * Special Locations: +4+1
 * Nations per Side: Illinois (L) +20
 * Number of Troops: +2+2
 * Recent Wars: NA
 * Fronts:3

Michigan
Total:57
 * Tier:+3.5
 * Military Developement:1/.66=1*2=2
 * Economy Development:1/2=.5*2=1
 * Infrastrucutre:
 * Strategic Modifers:+5
 * Motive:
 * Motive:10
 * Modifiers:0 (Gov just came out of a Civil War, not going to be univiersally supported)
 * Population:+4
 * Technology:+2
 * Climate and Geography:0
 * Location:+25
 * Special Locations:+4+2=6
 * Nations per Side:Michigan:+20
 * Number of Troops:1.5
 * Recent Wars:-3
 * Fronts:0

Result
Michigan throws back the attack

Illinois
Total: 53.65
 * Tier: +12
 * Military Development: +2/3=.66/1=.66*2.5=1.65
 * Economy Development: +0
 * Strategic Modifiers: +7+5
 * Motive: +3
 * Motive: +0
 * Modifiers: +5
 * Population: +7+2
 * Technology: +2
 * Climate and Geography: -0
 * Location: +20
 * Special Locations: +4+1
 * Nations per Side: Illinois (L) +20
 * Number of Troops: +2+2
 * Recent Wars: NA
 * Fronts:3

Wisconsin
Total: 63
 * Tier: +.5
 * Military Development: 1/2=.5*1=.5
 * Economy Development: +1
 * Infrastructure development: +2
 * Strategic Modifiers: +5
 * Motive: +9
 * Motive: +5
 * Modifiers: +4
 * Population: +2
 * Technology: +2
 * Climate and Geography: -0
 * Location: +25
 * Special Locations: +1
 * Nations per Side: Wisconsin (L) +20
 * Number of Troops: +1
 * Recent Wars: NA
 * Fronts: NA

result
Thrown back

disscusion
This war is just Illonois Vs. Wisconsin. Neither Ohio or Michagan is involved

About that. See, by invading Wisconsin while you're at war with me, you brought them into the war. Spartian300 (talk) 15:18, April 20, 2015 (UTC)

Missouri
Total:54.5
 * Tiers:+2
 * Military:0/.66=0
 * Economy:2/0=2*1.5=3
 * Strategic Modifers:+2+4-5-5=-6
 * Motive:+3+4
 * Population:3
 * Technology:+2
 * Climate and Geography:0
 * Location:+20
 * Specials:+5+1
 * NPS: Missouri (L)=+20
 * Number of Troops:+1.5+2
 * RECENT WARS:N/A
 * Fronts:N/A

Illinois
Total:70.65
 * Tiers:+10
 * Military:.66*2.5=1.65
 * Economy:
 * Strategic Modifers:+15
 * Motive:5+4=9
 * Popualtion:7+5
 * Technology:+2
 * Climate and Geography
 * Location:+25
 * Specials:+5
 * NPS: Illinois (L) Indiana (M) +30
 * Number of Troops:+1
 * Fronts:3

Result
Attack is thrown back

Kentucky
Total:51.5
 * Tier:.5
 * Military:0
 * Economy:+2/1=2*1=2
 * Strategic modifers:+2+4-5-5
 * Motive:+3+4=7
 * Population:=2
 * Tech:+2
 * Climate and Geography:0
 * Location:+20
 * Specials:1
 * NPS: Kentucky (L)
 * Number of Troops:+1
 * Fronts:0

Ohio
Total:85.4
 * Tier:+12
 * Military:1.5/0*2.5=1.65
 * Economy:1/2=.5*2.5=1.25
 * Strategic Modifers:+5
 * Motive;5+4=9
 * Population:6+5
 * Tech:+2
 * Climate and Geography:0
 * Location:+25
 * Specials:+3+1
 * Capitals:+1
 * NPS: Ohio (+20) Indiana (+10)
 * Number of Troops:1.5+2=3.5
 * Fronts:2

Result
Attack is thrown back

Result
Michigan collapses in a year

This algo is irrelevant. Wisconsion was invaded to, so it should be changed. Spartian300 (talk) 10:31, April 20, 2015 (UTC)

This algo factors that in. #PraiseRoosevelt. 15:17, April 20, 2015 (UTC)

And why is my score so low? It should be better then that. I mean, the current government is seen as liberators from the UFM. Spartian300 (talk) 15:19, April 20, 2015 (UTC)

Correcting a few mistakes I made. #PraiseRoosevelt. 16:10, April 20, 2015 (UTC)

The only one too make gains now in Ohio against Michigan.

Edge, be a good capitalist and supply me as well. Spartian300 (talk) 18:08, April 20, 2015 (UTC)

Michigan attack on Illinois
Michagan
 * Tier:2+4=6/2=3=+2
 * Military Developement:1/.66=1*2=2
 * Economy Development:3/2=1.5*2=3
 * Strategic Modifers:+2
 * Motive: +5
 * Modifiers:0 (Gov just came out of a Civil War, not going to be univiersally supported)
 * Population:+6
 * Technology:+2
 * Climate and Geography:0
 * Location:+17.5
 * Special Locations:+4+2=6
 * Nations per Side:Michigan (CL) Wisoncsin (C):+20
 * Number of Troops:2
 * Recent Wars:-6
 * Fronts: 2
 * Total: 41.5

Illinois
 * Tier: +10
 * Military Development: +2/3=.66/1=.66*2.5=1.65
 * Economy Development: +0
 * Strategic Modifiers: +10
 * Motive: +5
 * Modifiers: +5
 * Population: +7+2
 * Technology: +2
 * Climate and Geography: -0
 * Location: +25
 * Special Locations: +4+1
 * Nations per Side: Illinois (L) +20
 * Number of Troops: +2+2
 * Recent Wars: NA
 * Fronts: 2
 * Total: 76.65

result
Counter fails.

Illinois
Total: 57
 * Tier: +10
 * Military Development: +2/2=2/1=2*2.5=5
 * Economy Development: +0
 * Strategic Modifiers: +7+5
 * Motive: 10
 * Motive: +5
 * Modifiers: +5
 * Population: +7+2
 * Technology: +2
 * Climate and Geography: -0
 * Location: +20
 * Special Locations: +4+1
 * Nations per Side: Illinois (L) +20
 * Number of Troops: +2+2
 * Recent Wars: NA
 * Fronts:2

Missouri
Total:66.5
 * Tiers:+2
 * Military:0/.66=0
 * Economy:2/0=2*1.5=3
 * Strategic Modifers:+5
 * Motive:+5+4
 * Population:3
 * Technology:+2
 * Climate and Geography:0
 * Location:+20
 * Specials:+5+1
 * NPS: Missouri (L)=+20
 * Number of Troops:+1.5+2
 * RECENT WARS:N/A
 * Fronts:N/A

Results
Counter fails.

Coalition Forces
Total:100.8
 * Tier:+1+2=3/2=1.5~1=+12
 * Military Developement:3/2=1.5+4/2=3.5/.5=3.5*2.5=8.75
 * Economy Development:2/2=1+3/2=2.5/.5=2.5
 * Strategic Modifers:+2+5+5
 * Motive:7.83
 * Motive:4+3=7/2=3.5
 * Modifiers:4+4+5=4.3
 * Population:6+3=9/2=4.5+5=9.5
 * Technology:+2
 * Climate and Geography:-5
 * Location:+20
 * Special Locations:+4
 * Nations per Side:Ohio (CL) Indiana (CM) CoWM (CS)=+25
 * Number of Troops:+2.5+1+2=5.5
 * Recent Wars:0
 * Fronts:2

Kentucky
Total:51.5
 * Tier:.5
 * Military:0
 * Economy:+2/2=1/3.5=.28
 * Strategic modifers:5
 * Motive:+10+4=14
 * Population:=2
 * Tech:+2
 * Climate and Geography:0
 * Location:+20
 * Specials:1
 * NPS: Kentucky (L) Virgina (M)=+30
 * Number of Troops:+2
 * Fronts:2

Result
23% Max

11% in 1 year, 17% in 2

Pennsylvania
Total:104
 * Tier:+12
 * Military:3/0=3*2.5=7.5
 * Economy:3/1*2.5=7.5
 * Strategic Modifers:+2+5+5=12
 * Motive:2+0 (Gov Nuetral, Rebels never adressed)=2
 * Population:9+5=14
 * Climate and Geograpy:-5
 * Tech:+2
 * Specials:4+3=7
 * Location:+20
 * capitals:+3
 * NPS: Pennslyvania (20)
 * Troops:+2
 * Fronts:0

Kentucky
Total:62.5
 * Tier:.5
 * Military:0
 * Economy:+2/2=1/3.5=.28
 * Strategic modifers:5
 * Motive:+10+4=14
 * Population:=2
 * Tech:+2
 * Climate and Geography:0
 * Location:+20
 * Specials:1
 * NPS: Kentucky (L) Virgnina (M)=+30
 * Number of Troops:+2
 * Fronts:2

Result
24% max

12% in a year

18% in 2

Disscussion
Probably the last war to use this algo.

Uhh, the algo for my attack on Illinois should be Michigan + Wisconsin. And what the hell is wrong with Sat? He just got an alliance with Vat, now he sorta broke it? What? His turns confused me.Spartian300 (talk) 22:10, April 21, 2015 (UTC)

So I am not going to bother because We are already on the second year of the war, so it would collapse anyway. #PraiseRoosevelt. 01:54, April 22, 2015 (UTC)

Attacker

 * Tier: +4
 * Military Development: +3/0=3*1=3
 * Economy Development: +2/2*1=2
 * Strategic Modifers:+12
 * Motive: +6
 * Motive:3
 * Modifiers: +3+5
 * Population: +3 + 10
 * Technology: +2
 * Climate and Geography: 0 (same climate)
 * Location: +10
 * Special Locations: +3 (2 Capitals)
 * Nations per Side: +20
 * Number of Troops: +2.5+5
 * Recent Wars: -10 for Dust Bowl
 * Fronts: 0

Total: 75.5

Defender

 * Tier: +1
 * Military Development:0
 * Economy Development:2/2=1*1=1
 * Infrastrucutre: 2
 * Larger Economy: 0
 * Larger Industry: 0
 * Motive: +10
 * Motive
 * Modifiers: +4
 * Population: 0
 * Technology: +2
 * Climate and Geography: 0 (Same climate)
 * Location: +25
 * Special Locations: +1
 * Nations per Side: + 20
 * Number of Troops: +1
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Fronts: 0

Total: 67

Result
6% max

3% in a year

4% in 2

Disscussion
I think Iowa might deserve popular revolt bonus, but that's up to the mods. Also, I'm not sure how development works for NPCs. Shikata ga nai! 23:43, April 19, 2015 (UTC)

Who are you attacking here?

West Virginia
So I'm in charge of Virgnia, and I was invading West Virginia. But Pennsylvania, which I'm assuming didn't see that I invaded, asked West Virginia to join with them. They did join with Pennsylvania peacefully. I am opposed to this for many reasons. First of all, it makes far more sense for them to join with Virginia (which was randomly rejected), as we are extremely similar, and our only differences come from the civil war 90 years ago. Also, I invaded. Does this mean that I'm now at war with Pennsylvania? Or can I cancel the invasion?

You could cancel. Best you do. You could also help me fight Ohio, and I might be able to help you gain some monies. Just go help Kentucky. Spartian300 (talk) 19:40, April 20, 2015 (UTC)

If you withdraw, I can secure you an alliance and security with PA, with trade deals included. Plus, I'll grant you a county border if you do. Saturn120 20:09, April 20, 2015 (UTC)

So if both sides agree, then you can back out of the war. It appears that Penn is alright with back out of the war, so if you two reach an agreement #PraiseRoosevelt. 19:58, April 21, 2015 (UTC)

Arguments against the Texan-Californian Union
Alright so don't have a lot of time so I will just summarize my arguments for now. I also have rebuttals to Up's arguments presented in chat should they be needed. UNless you can convince me that this union is alright, then it is not going to fly. #PraiseRoosevelt. 17:06, April 21, 2015 (UTC)
 * 1) Two Players as one nation has never been allowed in the SSS series, so one player here would have to give up there nation. As Up expalined on chat, this is two states forming one nation, not an alliance. Remeber that mergers like these have only ever happened on the final turn of the game. We have had players play as vassals before (See SSS1) but never play as a district in another nation.
 * 2) The Larger economy (California) would be forced under a smaller economy (Union of the South).
 * 3) It would break the game. These are the two largest nations West of the Mississippi and allowing them to merge would hand everything West of the river over to Up (remeber Sean would have to give up his nation).
 * 4) Reforming the US in any form would be unpopular. Remeber all of these states left the US on there own terms, unlike the pervious 2 SSS games
 * 5) Sets a precedence for 2 things: Vassal Spam and Multiplayer Nations.
 * 6) Up's own strawpoll that she created (despite the fact that only the opinions of nuetral mods matters) voted no against the union.

If we cannot both play, then it's a no-go. I'm not giving up my nation under any condition. So yeah, this is solved. Let's focus on some other stuff. Hail Sean, Khan of Khans! (Free potatoes) 17:47, April 21, 2015 (UTC)

Algo Reform
So obviously, having done a few algos for this game, my idealistic approch to the algos was wrong. I will be refoming the algo soon. #PraiseRoosevelt. 20:37, April 21, 2015 (UTC)

Confed of the Western Mississippi
Total:70
 * Military:6
 * Industry:6
 * Technology:10
 * Troops:+2
 * Population:4+5=9
 * Chance:+4
 * Strategic Modifers:+5+5+6+5=21
 * Motive: Attacking to enforce Politcial Hem (+5) Economic (+2) Strategic (+3)=3.3~3+4=7
 * Location:+4
 * Special Locations:+2
 * Capitals:+3
 * Fronts:0
 * Recent Wars:0

Tennesse
Total:43
 * Military:+4
 * Industry:+4
 * Technology:+6
 * Troops:+1
 * Population:+2
 * Motive:+5+4=9
 * Chance:+9
 * Strategic Modifers:+2
 * Location:+5
 * Special Locations:0
 * Fronts:0
 * Capitals:+1
 * Fronts:0

Result
23% max.

11% in a year, 17% in 2,  19% in 3

Disscussion
This war was done Pre-Merger with Alabama.Should Alabama's player request, it will be changed #PraiseRoosevelt. 02:24, April 22, 2015 (UTC)

Iowa
Total:60
 * Military:4
 * Industry:3
 * Tech:6
 * Troops:+3+5=+8
 * Population:+3+2=5
 * Chance:8
 * Location:4
 * Strategic Modifers:+5+5+6=16
 * Motive:Aiding Ally (+3) Strategic (+3)=3+3=6
 * Special Locations:0
 * Capitals:+3
 * Fronts:0
 * Recent Wars:-3

Wisconsin
Total:4
 * Military:5
 * Industry:5
 * Technology:10
 * Troops:1
 * Population:2
 * Chance:6
 * Location:+5
 * Strategic Modifers:+2-3=-1
 * Motive:Defending from Non-Leathal:+5=5+4=9
 * Special Locations:0
 * Capitals:1
 * Fronts:-30
 * Recent Wars:-9

Result
1 year collapse. Wisconsin falls to Iowa.

Disscussion
Absoulte bullshit. Spartian300 (talk) 08:03, April 22, 2015 (UTC)

Wisconsin is a higher Tier then Iowa. Spartian300 (talk) 08:04, April 22, 2015 (UTC)

Check thw algo. Spartian300 (talk) 10:57, April 22, 2015 (UTC)

Yeah, this is done wrong. Spartian300 (talk) 14:19, April 22, 2015 (UTC)

Uhh no, it's not. The Old Algorithm was Defender Biased, which is why it was so easy for Wisconsin to hold back Illiniois.

Summary of the Results for the Northeastern war
So things in the North Eastern War have kinda gotten muddy, so here is a quick summary of the current results #PraiseRoosevelt. 02:31, April 22, 2015 (UTC)
 * Kentucky collapses to Coalition and Pennslyvania forces on after this year.
 * Litterally 0 changes in Illinois
 * Michigan has lost 14% of it's homeland to coalition efforts
 * Michigan had a military coup and is some kind of military dictatorship

Both Indiana and Illinois have dropped out, so I can now focus on Ohio with my allies now, right? Spartian300 (talk) 08:02, April 22, 2015 (UTC)

You don't have any Allies remaining. Kentucky is Dead. Missouri is fighting Illinois, and Wisconsin is dead.

Wisconsin is WAY stronger then that, Edge. They beat Illinois, and they end up losing because the score is 4? That ain't right! Spartian300 (talk) 15:29, April 22, 2015 (UTC)

Also, if Spar chooses to Counter attack, it will use the new algorithm instead of the old.

Spar, the massive front and recent war penalties you inflicted on Wisconsin mean it was practically impotent. No surprise it lost. Shikata ga nai! 20:04, April 22, 2015 (UTC)

ASA
Total:139
 * Military:10
 * Industry:10
 * Technology:10
 * Number of Troops:+3+5=8
 * Population:17+30=47
 * Location:+3
 * Chance:+9
 * Strategic Modifers:+5+8+5+6=24
 * Motive: Political Heg (+5) Strategic (+3)=4+4=8
 * Capitals:+3
 * Special Locations:+7
 * Fronts:0
 * Recent wars:0

Deleware
Total:38
 * Military:2
 * Industry:2
 * Technology:6
 * Troops:1
 * Population:0
 * Location:5
 * Chance:5
 * Strategic Modifers:2
 * Motive:Defending from a lethal Attack:+10+4=14
 * Capitals:1
 * Specials:0
 * Fronts:0
 * Recent Wars:0

Result
2 year collapse.

Illonois
Total: 63.5
 * military: +8
 * induestry: +10
 * technology: +10
 * troops: +2.5+2
 * population: +7+5
 * location: +4
 * chance: +2
 * startgic mods: +5
 * motive: +5+4
 * capitals: +1
 * special locations: +4
 * fronts: -3
 * Recent wars: -6

Missori
toltal: 21
 * military: +5
 * indestry: +4
 * technology: +10
 * troops: +2
 * population: +3
 * location: +5
 * chance: +1
 * strtigic mods: +2+5
 * motive: +10+4
 * capitals: +1
 * special locations: +5
 * fronts: -30
 * recent wars: -6

Iowa
Total: 47
 * Military: +5 +1
 * Industry: +5 +1
 * technology: +10
 * troops: +3+2
 * population: +6
 * location: +4
 * chance: +2
 * startgic mods: +5 +6
 * motive: +5
 * capitals: +4
 * special locations: 0
 * fronts: N/A
 * Recent wars: -6

Missouri
toltal: 23
 * military: +5 +1
 * indestry: +5 +1
 * technology: +10
 * troops: +3
 * population: +3
 * location: +4
 * chance: +7
 * strtigic mods: +2+5
 * motive: +10+4
 * capitals: +1
 * special locations: +5
 * fronts: -30
 * recent wars: -6

result
Illionis: 50% max. 25% in a year.

Iowa:34% max, 17% in a year.

Missouri collapses in a year.

Discussion
I added a second front, although Missouri clearly loses. Shikata ga nai! 22:03, April 22, 2015 (UTC)

Need to work on the spelling. Also where the random +1's are coming from is beyond me.

Michigan
Total:60*1.2=72
 * Military:+8
 * Industry:+8+3.5
 * Technology:+10+5
 * Number of troops:+2.5
 * Population:+4
 * Chance:+8
 * Strategic modifers:-4+2
 * Motive:10 (Countering Major Enemy)+ 8(attacking major enemy with no desire to kill)=+9+3
 * Special Locations:+4
 * Capitals;+1
 * Recent Wars:-12

Ohio
Total:53.2
 * Military:+10
 * Industry:+10
 * Tech:+10
 * Troops:2.7
 * Population:6+2
 * Chance:+8
 * Strategic Modifers:+2
 * Motive:+8 (defending from major enemy) +3 (Defending Territory)=5.5+4=9.5
 * Special Locations:+4
 * Capitals;+1
 * Recent Wars:-12

Result
15% max

7.5% in a year

12.5% in 2

Occupied Michigan is retaken in 2 years.

I cancled the attack. But considering it was close, I could have done it with some aid. Spartian300 (talk) 12:58, April 23, 2015 (UTC)

Uhhh no you didn't. You are still involved in this. You can't just cancel attacks like this. This war still happened. #PraiseRoosevelt. 13:04, April 23, 2015 (UTC)

I erased it from my turn. And did I get supplies? Spartian300 (talk) 13:08, April 23, 2015 (UTC)

I added the supplies from Indiana, but it still isn't gonna be much better.

Cali
Total:78
 * Military:+8
 * Industry:+8
 * Technology:+10
 * Troops:+3
 * Population:+6+12
 * Location:+2
 * Chance:+8
 * Strategic Modifers:+5+5
 * Motive:+2+4=6
 * Specials;+5
 * Capitals:+3
 * Recent Wars:-6

Utah
Total:36.5
 * Military:3
 * Industry:+2
 * Technology:+6
 * Troops:+1.5
 * Chance:+7
 * Population:0
 * Strategic Mods:+2
 * Motive:+10+4=14
 * Specials:+0
 * Capitals:+1
 * Recent Wars:0

Result
36% max

18% in a year

27% in 2

30% in 3

31% in 4

32% in 5

33% in 6

Illinois
Toltal: 56.25
 * military: +8+6
 * indestry: +10+6
 * Technology: +10+10
 * troops: +3.5
 * population: +7+2
 * location: +4
 * chance:+8
 * stratigic mods: +5
 * motive: Pre-empitive strike: +4, limiting rivil: +4+4| Aiding Ally, (+3) Limiting Rival (+4)=+3.5+4|8+7.5/2=7.75
 * capitals: +4+3=7
 * special locations: +3+4
 * fronts: -30
 * recent wars: -15

Iowa
Toltal: 45*1.2=54-30=24
 * military: +4
 * industry: +5
 * technology: +6
 * troops: +3
 * population: +6
 * location: +5
 * Chance:+2
 * strategic mods: +2
 * motive: defending from lethal: +10+3
 * cpaitals: +3
 * special locations: +2
 * fronts: -30
 * recent wars: -9
 * toltal war: *1.2

Illonis
Toltal: 31.5
 * military: +8
 * indestry: +10
 * Technology: +10
 * troops: +3.5
 * population: +7+2
 * location: +4
 * chance:+8
 * stratigic mods: +5
 * motive: Pre-empitive strike: +4, limiting rivil: +4+4
 * capitals: +4
 * special locations: 4+3
 * fronts: -30
 * recent wars: -15

Iowa
Toltal: 21.6 (With total war)
 * military: +4
 * industry: +5
 * technology: +7
 * troops: +3
 * population: +6
 * location: +5
 * Chance:+2
 * strategic mods: +2+5
 * motive: defending from lethal: +10+3
 * cpaitals: +3
 * special locations: +2
 * fronts: -30
 * recent wars: -9
 * toltal war: *1.2

Results
Between Both Fronts: Iowa collapses in 2 years.

Discussion
Given that Iowa controls Wisconsin, I'm guessing its tiers should be those of Wisconsin, which are all significantly higher than the ones used here. Also, I'm activating total war, which means I get a 1.2 multiplier.. Shikata ga nai! 11:02, April 23, 2015 (UTC)

YOU CAN'T JUST HAVE WORKED AROUND THIS AND TRIED TO HELP ME FIRST, COULD YOU? I NEED THOSE WEAPONS!!!!!!! Spartian300 (talk) 11:16, April 23, 2015 (UTC)

I got invaded by a nation which had promised not to invade me. So no, we couldn't have worked around this. Also Fires, it's "Illinois" and not "Illonis". Shikata ga nai! 11:30, April 23, 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for the correction kras, I'll add it in a minute. Second of all, i have added the front penelty on kras's side of the algo. This is because Dax has declared war on him, but I have yet to do that algo.

F*** it all, I am invading Kras, then I start taking Toledo!!!! Spartian300 (talk) 12:46, April 23, 2015 (UTC)

I'll fix this later, but Kras brings up a valid point that needs to be considered if it hasn't already. Remeber that you guys can't collapse Kras because this is a nonleathal attack. #PraiseRoosevelt. 13:03, April 23, 2015 (UTC)

Since Fires is letting Dax move through his territory, it's all happening on the same front, and no penalty is applied. Shikata ga nai! 14:02, April 23, 2015 (UTC)

Not nessacery. I don't know how much you Gave to Kansas, but there is still plenty of room for Two fronts.

Actually, if you two would stop measuring dicks, and start giving me supplies, then I will aid whoever helps me the most against their opponent. Deal? Spartian300 (talk) 14:12, April 23, 2015 (UTC)

Spar, if Dax invades through the same territory as Fires, it's happening on the same front. Also, I can't reasonably aid you while fighting a huge war, because I'll get penalties. Help me now, and I'll lead in the war against Ohio later.Shikata ga nai! 14:19, April 23, 2015 (UTC)

Kras, we can still fight on two fronts. It would make sense that I attacked further too the north of Missori, because it is closer to your center of power. Meanwhile, it would make sense for Dax to attack in the south, as that way it's closer to him. I'm not exacully sure if that's what would happen, but we will get edge on it, and he can decide.

Just make peace, and whoever aids me the most, I will aid in the coming Iowa-Illinois war. Spartian300 (talk) 14:44, April 23, 2015 (UTC)

Ahem. So What kras says is correct. This war is being fought in Missouri primarly. For all intensve purposes, Confed of Western Miss and Illinois are fighting on the same front. Now if this was the Almost 3 algo it would be different.

I spelling mistakes are  so bad that I almost want to switch sides Daxus the Harbinger of Lameness (talk) 03:25, April 24, 2015 (UTC)

Fires, I'm not sure if you understand the concept of a two-front war. A two-front war only occurs when one nation is fighting in two geographically separate locations (i.e. separated by neutral countries, oceans, mountain ranges, etc.). Germany fought a two-front war in WWI. So did France in the later Napoleonic Wars. However, a two-front war cannot exist when those fronts are not geographically separated, and when the same two nations are fighting on the same continent with no geographical obstacles in between, as we have here.

Also, my recent wars penalty isn't -22. I have no idea where that came from. It should be lower than the penalty for Illinois and CWM.Shikata ga nai! 12:30, April 24, 2015 (UTC)

Okay, the reason there is a two front war is because in addition to the Missori front, I began an attack in Wisconsin. That, I think, qualifys as two fronts, but I'm horrible at algos. Second, the reason your recent wars penelty is -22 kras. Becaus e last year, you had -12, if I am not mistaken. because you activated toltal war, that is another -10, which should be factored in. Lastly, you can do the algos yourself if you want. I mean, I will continue doing them, but at the same time I don't want to piss anyone off.

In WWI, if Germany launched an offensive against Russia in Romania, it still occurred on the same front as a simultaneous offensive happening in Poland, because the same two countries were fighting on a geographically continuous front. Since there is fighting happening along a front stretching continuously from Wisconsin to Missouri, it cannot qualify as a second front. Also, Dax fought a war against Alabama, so that penalty needs to be factored in. Shikata ga nai! 16:33, April 24, 2015 (UTC)

Not to mention I get the defensive line bonus (+5), my tiers still need to be raised to those of Wisconsin, and the new algo needs a new chance calculation.Shikata ga nai! 16:41, April 24, 2015 (UTC)

This is one front. Spartian300 (talk) 17:38, April 24, 2015 (UTC)

It is not. Illinois and CWM invading in Missouri and Illinois is invading in Wisconsin as well.

Pennslyvania
Total:13.75
 * Military:10
 * Industry:10+4
 * Technology:10+5
 * Troops:+6
 * Population:+9
 * Location:+4
 * Chance:8
 * Strategic Modifers:No Air or Naval superiority=-6
 * Motive:+10 (Attack Major Enemy) +2 (Economic) +3( Strategic) +4 (Limiting Rival)=4.75-5=-.25
 * Capitals:+3
 * Special Locations:+7
 * Multiple Fronts:-30 (See below about the Socalist Revolts)
 * Recent Wars:-6 (2 years in Kentucky)

ASA
Total:93
 * Military:10
 * Industry:10
 * Technology:10
 * Troops:+7
 * Population:+15+2=17
 * Location:+5
 * Chance:+6
 * Strategic modifers:+5+2+2
 * Motive: (Defending from a major enemy with intent to kill)+15+4
 * Capitals:+4
 * Special Locations:+7
 * Multiple Fronts:-5
 * Recent Wars:-6

Result
Thrown back in a year, with ease at that.

Disscussion
Before I begin, there are a couple of things that need to be adressed. These two factors lead Penn's gov to be unpopular. Now lets move on to the next part. Sat has urged all free nations to get inolved in the war. remeber 2 things with this, especially you, my fellow mods. Deleware holds 0 geopoltical improtance. It isn't DC. Doesn't have a large industrial capacity, resource base, or population. Few States, beyoned Pennslyvania and Maybe Maryland, would care about this.
 * 1) Socalist revolts. Upvote Gave Penn State Socalist Revolts, which Sat embraced. They took Philledalphia and then spread throughout the state. Becuase nothing has been mentioned about the revolts, they are still ongoing. This is something that was not noticed in the last algo, which means the war in Kentucky also needs to be redone.
 * 2) Remeber that Politicans in Penn state urged the nation to invade Deleware. Sat chose not to, and the nation fell to the ASA

Also remeber that ASA troops have been stationed on the Border for several years, gun boats in lake Erie and off the coast, meaning that he has to go through defensive lines to get to me.

Remeber that Sat's development has been mostly just saying "Military and Economy Improve". As I already dissucssed with fellow mod Up, Navy needs to be mentioned in some extent. Military and Economy is simply too vague. sat was also told this on chat before he invaded.

I hope that this justifaction stops people from making claims about algo rigging. #PraiseRoosevelt. 01:40, April 24, 2015 (UTC)

ASA
Total:104*1.2
 * Military:10
 * Industry:10
 * Technology:10
 * Troops:+7
 * Population:+15+2=17
 * Location:+4
 * Chance:+6
 * Strategic modifers:+8+8+5=21
 * Motive: Counter attacking Major Enemy (+10)=+10+4=14
 * Capitals:+4
 * Special Locations:+7
 * Multiple Fronts:-0
 * Recent Wars:-6

Pennslyania
Total:37.75
 * Military:10+8
 * Industry:10+4+7
 * Technology:10+5+5
 * Troops:+3.5
 * Population:+11
 * Location:+5
 * Chance:8
 * Strategic Modifers:+2
 * Motive: Defending from Major Enemy with intent to kill:+15-4=+11| Aiding Ally (3) Limiting Potential Rival (+4)=7/2=3.5+4=7.5+11=9.25-2(1 citation)
 * Capitals:+3+1
 * Special Locations:+7+1
 * Multiple Fronts:-60 (See below about the Socalist Revolts)
 * Recent Wars:-10 (2 years in Kentucky)

Result
Collpase in 2 years.

Disscussion
Virginia joined this war. We're helping an ally and protecting from a potential rival and a major nation.

Sign you posts please, and if you mean "Major Enemy" than no. the ASA and Virginia are not major enemies. #PraiseRoosevelt. 16:25, April 24, 2015 (UTC)

To respond to something Vat put in his turn: Remeber that the ASA's  Military tier is higher than Virgina's, so while he can put in his turn that he attacks the bases and blockades, there is no garuntee that he can break through the blockade or harm the bases. #PraiseRoosevelt. 19:25, April 24, 2015 (UTC)

Ohio
Total:49.5
 * Military:10
 * Industry:10
 * Tech:10
 * Troop Numbers:+2
 * Population:+6
 * Location:+4
 * Strategic Modifer:+6+5
 * Motive:Aiding Ally (+3) Limiting Rival (+4)=3.5+4=7.5
 * Capitals:+3
 * Special Locations:+4
 * Fronts:0
 * Recent Wars-18

Pennslyvania
Total:.5
 * Military:10
 * Industry:10
 * Tech:10
 * Troops:+2.5
 * Population:+9+2
 * Location:+5
 * Chance:+8
 * Strategic Modifers:+2
 * Capitals:+3
 * Motive: Defending Territory +3-5=-2
 * Special Locations:+7
 * Fronts:-60
 * Recent Wars:-6

Result
Ohian Forces sweep through Pennslyvania forces.

Disscussion
If Virginia's player choses to declare war on Ohio as well, he may.

He does not. Vatonica (talk) 20:28, April 24, 2015 (UTC)

Overall Result
Ohio and the ASA collapse Pennslyvania in a year, with Ohio taking Pennslyavnain Kentucky. Virginia my continue this fight should she wish, but at this point penn is out of the game.

Wash
Total:48
 * Military:6
 * Industry:7
 * Technology:10
 * Troops:+1.5
 * Population:+1+5
 * Location:+4
 * Chance:+1
 * Strategic Modifers:+5+5
 * Motive: economic and Strategic:+2.5+3=5.5
 * Capitals:+1
 * Special Locations:+2
 * Recent Wars:-6

Idaho
Total:35
 * Military:+2
 * Industry:+2
 * Technology:+2
 * Troops:+.5
 * Population:0
 * Location:=5
 * Strategic Modifers:=2
 * Motive:10+4
 * Capitals:+1
 * Specials:0
 * Chance:+2
 * Recent Wars:0

Result
17% max

8% in a year

13% in 2

Disscussion
Washington's technology should be 8, not 10. Hail Sean, Khan of Khans! (Free potatoes) 09:00, April 25, 2015 (UTC)

Californian Federation

 * Strength: 8+8+10=+26
 * Troops: +4
 * Population: 7+5=+12
 * Location: +4
 * Strategic Modifiers: 8+5+6+5=+21
 * Motive: Political Hegemony and Limiting rival=4.5+4(gov support)+5(morale)=13.5
 * Capitals: +4.5
 * Special Locations: +5
 * Chance:+7
 * Recent Wars: -15
 * Total: 78

Washington

 * Strength: 6+7+8=+21
 * Troops: +1
 * Population: +2
 * Location: +5
 * Strategic Modifiers: +2
 * Motive: Leathal Attack: 15+4=+19
 * Capitals: +3
 * Chance:+1
 * Special Locations: +2
 * Fronts: -30
 * Recent Wars: -9
 * Total: 17*1.5=25.5*1.2=30.6

Result
Collapsed in 2

Influencing Nations
So i dilbretly left the rules about this Vague because I didn't want people abusing it. There are 6 rules about influencing a nation. TO FIGURE OUT YOUR SCORE, TAKE THE STRENGH PORTION OF THE ALGORITHIM. THAT IS YOUR SCORE SUBTRACT IT FROM THE NATION YOU ARE TRYING TO INFLUENCE. THEN CHECK THE CHART BELOW
 * 1) You must have Friendly Relations with said nation
 * 2) You must not have attempeted a peaceful merge with said nation in the last 10 years
 * 3) you must have a higher score than said nation (see below)
 * 4) They must be an NPC nation
 * 5) You must have a direct land or maritime border with the nation in question
 * 6) You can not influence a state that is culturally different than you.

ASA and Friends
Total:130
 * Military:10+2+2
 * Industry:10+2.5+2.5
 * Technology:10+3.5+3.5
 * Troops:1
 * Location:+4
 * Population:+25+30
 * Strategic Modifers:+8+2
 * Motive:Enforcing Political Hegemony (+5)=5+4=9
 * Capitals:5 capitals=+5+3=8
 * Specials:+4+2+1+4+2=+13
 * Multiple Fronts:0
 * Recent Wars:-16

Socalist Revolts
Total:6
 * Military:2
 * Industry:2
 * Technology:2
 * Troops:1
 * Location:+5
 * Population:0
 * Strategic Modifers:+2
 * Motive:10 (no gov)
 * Capitals:0 (not a gov)
 * Specials:0
 * Multiple Fronts:0
 * Recent Wars: -18 (Fight against PA)

Result
killed. Thanks Up for telling me to do an algo when they have no scores or population. #PraiseRoosevelt. 03:12, April 25, 2015 (UTC)

Edge why are you getting extra points for your tier scores. What is the reason you get them. Hail Sean, Khan of Khans! (Free potatoes) 09:42, April 25, 2015 (UTC)

My new Protectorates in Penn State. #PraiseRoosevelt. 17:24, April 25, 2015 (UTC)

Texas

 * Strength: 10+8+10:+28
 * Troops: 3.5
 * Population: 7+5=+12
 * Location: +4
 * Chance:8
 * Strategic Modifiers: 8+2=+10
 * Motive: 2(Pre-Emptive)+4+5=+13
 * Capital: +4
 * Special Locations: +2
 * Recent Wars: -2
 * Total: 82.5

Oklahoma

 * Strength: 3+2+2=+7
 * Troops: +2
 * Population: +2
 * Location: +5
 * Chance:8
 * Strategic Modifiers: +2
 * Motive: +10(Leathal Attack)+4
 * Capital: +1
 * Total:41

Result
33% max

16% in a year

25% in 2

Overturned. 1 year collapse.

Disscsussion
Why is texas's motive Pre-emptive strike? Oklahoma isn't a threat to Texas. And Chance. You can't forget chance. #PraiseRoosevelt. 21:40, April 25, 2015 (UTC)

Dakota
Total: 80
 * Military: 3 + 2
 * Industry: 2 + 2
 * Technology:6
 * Troops:3
 * Location: +4
 * Population:+2 +25
 * Strategic Modifers:+5 +8 +6
 * Motive:Enforcing Political Hegemony (+5)=5+4=9
 * Capitals:3 capitals = +4
 * Specials:0
 * Multiple Fronts:0
 * Recent Wars:0

Holy Republic
Total: 26*1.5=39
 * Military:2
 * Industry:2
 * Technology: 5
 * Troops: 1
 * Location:+5
 * Population: 0
 * Strategic Modifers:+2
 * Motive: 10+3 (not supported; invading theocracy)
 * Capitals:0
 * Specials:0
 * Multiple Fronts:0
 * Recent Wars: -3 (taking over part of Idaho)

Result
34% max

17% in a year

25% in 2.

Expansion of the Map
So there may be a few questions about the expansion of the map. Here is the place to Awnser them. The first thing is that you only get 1 switch. The second thing is that this is an expirment. If I think it is going horribly wrong, then I will remove mexico and canada form the map. The Third thing to note is that The map of the Us will remain in use because it is more accurate, however there will be a second map that shows the entirty of north America.

What can be influenced by me? Spartian300 (talk) 07:48, April 27, 2015 (UTC)

Are these new nations on the map playable to players who may have been defeated? Saturn120 11:04, April 27, 2015 (UTC)

if you lost your nation, you can repick. And none. You can't influence across national boundaries in this game. #PraiseRoosevelt. 19:04, April 27, 2015 (UTC)

But..... Golden Horseshoe..... My hegemony....Spartian300 (talk) 19:10, April 27, 2015 (UTC)

Well you can, but none of the states that border you. And you have no Hegemony.

19:28, April 27, 2015 (UTC)
 * 1) ShotsFired Prinsenvlag.svg Hail Sean, Khan of Khans! (Free potatoes)

Alabama
Total:74
 * Military:5+3.75
 * Industry:4+3.75
 * Technology:6+4.5
 * Troops:+2
 * Population:+4+5
 * Location:+4
 * Strategic Modifers:+6+5+5=17
 * Motive:3+4=7
 * Capitals:+3
 * Chance:7
 * Specials:0
 * Fronts:0
 * Puppets and Vassals:0
 * Recent Wars:0

Florida
Total:51.5
 * Military:5
 * Industry:6
 * Tech:+8
 * Troops:1.5
 * Population:+2
 * Location:+5
 * Motive:+5+4=9
 * Chance:5
 * Capitals:+1
 * Specials:0
 * Fronts:0
 * Puppets and Vassals:0
 * Recent Wars:0

Result
17% max

8% in a year

13% in 2

Disscussion
Need Troop Numbers.

NAU
total: 55.25
 * military: +8+2.25
 * industry: +10+1.5
 * technology: +10+1.5
 * troops: +3
 * population: +15+8
 * location: +4
 * chance: +5
 * strategic mods: +7
 * motive: limiting potential rival, political hedge, +5
 * capitals: +5+
 * special locations: +7
 * fronts: -30
 * recent wars: -15

Minnesota
total: -22.5
 * military: +4
 * industry: +3
 * technology: +2
 * troops: +1.5
 * population: +3
 * location: +5
 * chance: +5
 * strategic mods: +2-3
 * motive: defending from lethal: +10+4
 * capitals: +1
 * special locations: +0
 * fronts: -60
 * recant wars: N/A

NAU
total: 54.75
 * military: +8+2.25
 * industry: +10+1.5
 * technology: +10+1.5
 * troops: +2.5
 * population: +15+8
 * location: +4
 * chance: +5
 * strategic mods: +7
 * motive: limiting potential rival, political hedge, +5
 * capitals: +5+3
 * special locations: +7
 * fronts: -30
 * recent wars: -15

Minnesota
total: -22.5
 * military: +4
 * industry: +3
 * technology: +2
 * troops: +1.5
 * population: +3
 * location: +5
 * chance: +5
 * strategic mods: +2-3
 * motive: defending from lethal: +10+4
 * capitals: +1
 * special locations: +0
 * fronts: -60
 * recant wars: N/A

Result
Rekt. Also from now on, list out the nations involved in the war.

Michigan
total: -1.5
 * military: +8
 * industry: +8
 * technology: +8
 * troops: +2
 * population: +5
 * location: +4
 * chance: +0
 * strategic mods: +5
 * motive: aiding and ally, limiting potential rival, +3.5+4
 * capitals: +1
 * special locations: +2
 * recent wars: -32
 * Fronts:-30

Minnesota
total: -22.5
 * military: +4
 * industry: +3
 * technology: +2
 * troops: +1.5
 * population: +3
 * location: +5
 * chance: +5
 * strategic mods: +2-3
 * motive: defending from lethal: +10+4
 * capitals: +1
 * special locations: +0
 * fronts: -60
 * recant wars: N/A

Result
Dividing by 0 is easier than this.

ASA
Total:137
 * Military:+10+2+2
 * Industry:+10+2.5+2.5
 * Technology:+10+3.5+3.5
 * Troops:+3.5
 * Population:+25+8
 * Location:+3
 * Chance:+2
 * Strategic Modifers:8+8+10=36
 * Motive:+5+3+2+4=14/4=3.5+4=7.5
 * Capitals:1+1+1+1+1=+5+3=8
 * Specials:+13
 * Multiple Fronts:N/A
 * Recent Wars:-6-5-2=-13
 * Puppet and Vassals:-2

Michigan
Total:-9.5
 * military: +8
 * industry: +8
 * technology: +8
 * troops: +.5
 * population: +5
 * location: +4
 * chance: +0
 * strategic mods: +2
 * motive:Defending From leathal:10+4
 * capitals: +1
 * special locations: +2
 * recent wars: -32
 * Fronts:-30

Result
Gone in 1.

Discussion
Remeber Spar's army is only 25,000 men. And he sent 20,000 to go fight in Minnesota. Therefore, he has 5,000 men left to defend michigan.

Motives for ASA:

Political Heg

Economic

Strategic

Pre-Empitve

result
Minnesota Collapses

Switching
I'd like to switch from Virginia to Ontario. Is this OK?

Vatonica (talk) 01:45, April 29, 2015 (UTC)

Yes it is Daxus the Harbinger of Lameness (talk) 05:52, April 29, 2015 (UTC)

You get a single switch. Once you switch, you can not switch again. #PraiseRoosevelt. 13:34, April 29, 2015 (UTC)

Influencing Penelty
So People are starting to use influecing as their primary expansion choice. As a result, there will be a penelty introduced for influencing several nations at once or in rapid sucsession. If this isn't enough, then there will be other messures used to prevent abuse of this.
 * If you have peacefully influenced a nation in the past 10 turns:+1 turn for influenecing
 * If you have peacefully inluenced 2 nations in the past 10 turns:+3 turns for infulencing
 * If you have influenced 3 nations in the past 10 turns:Can not influence.

Does this count for influence started before this rule was implemented? Hail Sean, Khan of Khans! (Free potatoes) 13:58, April 29, 2015 (UTC)

Rules on Switching Nations
So if you have died, you may re-pick without warrant. If you are currently a nation and want to switch, you can do so once. #PraiseRoosevelt. 13:49, April 29, 2015 (UTC)

Dakota Confederation
Total:42.5
 * Military:3+1
 * Industry:2+1
 * Technology:6+1
 * NPS: Dakota (L) West Montana (LV)
 * Troops:+3.5
 * Population:+1+2
 * Strategic Modifers:+5+10
 * Location:+4
 * Motive:+2+4=6
 * Capitals:+4
 * Recent wars:-6
 * Puppets and Vassals:-1

Manitoba
Total:40.5
 * Military:2
 * Industry:2
 * Technology:6
 * NPS:Manitoba
 * Troops:.5
 * Strategic Modfiers:+2
 * Location:+4
 * Motive:+10+4=14
 * Population:0
 * Capitals:1
 * Recent wars:0
 * Puppets and Vassals:0

Result
Tactical Dakota Victory. 2% taken.