Talk:Shattered Stars and Stripes: The New Deal

<p dat dibs on blue Hail Sean, Khan of Khans! (Free potatoes) 15:18, April 9, 2015 (UTC)

Green. Spartian300 (talk) 16:44, April 9, 2015 (UTC)

The map is already made. I just need to upload it. This is Edge, He is a cool guy when he isn't too lazy to sign his real sig. Hit him up. 19:16, April 9, 2015 (UTC)

When is the game beginning? Morgan Freemen but With A Lamer Voice (talk) 18:55, April 12, 2015 (UTC)

Wensday. This is Edge, He is a cool guy when he isn't too lazy to sign his real sig. Hit him up. 19:23, April 12, 2015 (UTC)

Can I claim Nebraska? - QC

Good to see that you guys brought this back! Hit me up next time another SSS is started. CaptainCain (talk) 23:04, April 13, 2015 (UTC)

What time are we starting? Spartian300 (talk) 09:49, April 14, 2015 (UTC)

Friday. This is Edge, He is a cool guy when he isn't too lazy to sign his real sig. Hit him up. 18:49, April 14, 2015 (UTC)

you can change your nation before the game begins, but once it starts, you are stuck with it.

I joined as Kentucky, is that ok?

Also how do I make algorithims (since players need to make thEIR own algorithims) -QC

Prelude
The new algo appears to be kinda defender biased and fails to acuratly reflect coalitions. As a result, I have decided to redesgin the algo I have decided to look at the most popular games and see what makes those algos good. This is what I have come up with

Military Tiers
Tiers will be completly redone to be more along the lines of AvA. There are 3 types of Tiers. Military, Industry, and Technology

Tier 1 (10)

 * ASA
 * Pennslyvania
 * Ohio
 * Union of the South

Tier 2 (8)

 * California
 * Illinois
 * Virgina
 * Michigan

Tier 3 (6)

 * Confed of the Western Mississippi
 * Washington
 * Indiana
 * Oregon
 * Carolina

Tier 3.5 (5)

 * Alabama
 * Wisconsin
 * Massachussets
 * Georgia
 * Missouri
 * Florida
 * Maryland

Tier 4 (4)

 * Conneticut
 * Iowa
 * Minnesota
 * Colorado
 * Mississippi
 * Maryland
 * Tennesse

Tier 4.5 (3)

 * Nebraska
 * Kansas
 * Oklahoma
 * Utah
 * Rhode Island

Tier 5 (2)

 * All the Rest

Tier 1 (10)

 * ASA
 * Ohio
 * Illinos
 * Pennslyvania

Tier 2 (8)

 * Union of the South
 * California
 * Michigan

Tier 2.5 (7)

 * Virginia
 * Oregon
 * Indiana
 * Washington

Tier 3 (6)

 * Massachussets
 * Florida
 * Carolina
 * Confed of the Western Miss

Tier 3.5 (5)

 * Wisconsin
 * Georgia

Tier 4 (4)

 * Alabama
 * Mississippi
 * Missouri
 * Maryland
 * Tennesse

Tier 4.5 (3)

 * Conneticut
 * Iowa
 * Minnesota
 * Colorado

Tier 5 (2)

 * Everyone Else

Technology Tiers
Only 3 tiers here for now. Will expand as the game goes on

Tier 1 (10)

 * ASA
 * Pennslyvania
 * Union of the South
 * California
 * Washington
 * Michigan
 * Ohio
 * Confed of the Western Miss
 * Indiana
 * Massachussets
 * Rhode Island
 * Conneticut
 * Oregon
 * Virginia
 * Carolina
 * Wisconsin
 * Illonois
 * Missouri

Tier 3 (6)

 * Alabama
 * Deleware
 * Mississippi
 * Florida
 * Georgia
 * Vermont
 * New Hampshire
 * Maine
 * Tennese
 * Iowa
 * Utah

Tier 5 (2)
Everything else

Strength
This is a combination of Development and Nations per side
 * For a Leader, you take each Score (Military, Industry, Technology) and add it up
 * For a Military aider, take 3/4ths of the nations scores
 * For a supplier, take 1/2 of the nations Technology and Industry Score
 * For A vassal, use 3/4's of the vassal's tier before calculation

Number of Troops
Pretty much the same as before
 * +1 for every 10,000 troops

Population
MODIFIERS:
 * Population less than 1 million:+0
 * Population greater than 1 million:+1
 * Population greater than 2 million:+2
 * Population greater than 3 million:+3
 * Population greater than 4 million:+4
 * Population greater than 5 million:+5
 * Population greater than 6 million:+6
 * Population greater than 7 million:+7
 * Population greater than 8 million:+8
 * Population greater than 9 million:+9
 * POpulation greater than 10 million:+10
 * Population greater than 15 million:+15
 * Population greater than 20 Million:+20
 * Population greater than 25 million:+25
 * Population greater than 35 million:+30
 * Larger Population:+2
 * 2-5x larger:+5
 * 5-9x larger:+8
 * 10x-15x larger:+12
 * 15x-20x larger:+15
 * 20x-30x larger:+25
 * Greater than 30x larger:+30

Location
Here is another major difference:

This section is subject to greater reform
 * +5 For Defender
 * +4 for a nation who's core in on the border
 * +3 for for a nation who's core is near the war
 * +2 for a nation who's core is far from the war
 * +1 for a nation who's core is on the other side of the nation

Chance
Take the one's digit in your edit count at the time you declared war. For NPC's use the ten digit in your edit count

Strategic Modifers

 * Attackers Only:
 * Moderate Air superiority:+5
 * Massive Air Superiority:+8
 * No Air Superiority:-3
 * Moderate Naval Superiority:+5
 * Massive Naval Superiority:+8
 * No Naval Superiority:-3
 * Not Moblized (must be stated in turn):-4
 * Superise Attack:+6
 * Defender Only:
 * Defensive Line formed:+5
 * Fighting in a familer territory (owned for more than 5 turns):+2
 * Forces Preocupied (IE Fighting a war elsewhere):-3
 * Both Sides
 * More Troops:+2
 * Signifigantly More Troops:+5 (2-5 times greater)
 * Army Dwarfs Opponents: +10 (at least 6 times greater

Motive
Slightly different. You may now have as many main motives as you want, but the scores for your main motives are averaged together. So if you have "Enforcing Political Hegemony" and "Counter Attack", leaving your main motive score at +6. YOU MUST NOW LIST WHAT YOUR MOTIVE IS IN THE ALGO
 * Economic (gains land/resources)+2
 * Strategic (Counters Rival's expansion, takes area of importance)+3
 * Enforce Political Hemogony:+5
 * Limiting potential rival: +4
 * Defending Core from non leathal attack:+5
 * Defending a territory from a non leathal attack:+3
 * Defending from a leathal Attack:+10
 * Defending from a "Major Enemy":+8
 * Defending from a "Major Enemy" with the intent to destroy your nation:+15
 * Attacking a "Major Enemy" with No intent to kill (IE Limit or weaken a major enemy):+8
 * Attacking a "Major Enemy" with the intent to Kill:+10
 * Counter Attacking Major enemy, regardless of motive:+10
 * Defending from a state that has WMDs, but does not have the intent to kill:+5
 * Defnding from a state that has WMDS that intends to kill:+8
 * Defending from a state that has used WMDs, regardless of the attackers motive:+10
 * Counter Attack:+4
 * Pre-Emptive Strike:+4
 * Aiding an Ally:+3
 * Taking a territory of Similar culture, but not part of nation:+5
 * MODS:
 * Democratic Gov Supported:+4
 * Non Demo Supported:+3
 * Gov Not Supported:-5
 * Gov in Anarchy:-20
 * Gov Neutral:+0
 * High Morale(High development scores, troops numbers are relitivly equal to or greater than oppenets, gov and war supported):+5
 * Low Morale(Lower scores, smaller troops, gov or war not supported):-5
 * WAR not supported:-3
 * Implausibility: -2 per impluasibility

Popular Revolt, Major Enemy, Total War

 * Mods may grant nations a popular revolt or major enemy bonus, and players may activate a Total War Bonus
 * Popular revolt lasts 5-15 turns and grants each nation a 1.5 multiplier for any war.
 * Major Enemy lasts an unspecified period of time and grants a nation a 1.5 multiplier against certain nations
 * Total War can be activated by the player at times of Dire need and it grants a 1.2 multiplier for the remainder of the war.

Capitals
MODIFIERS:
 * +1 for every capital you hold
 * +1 for holding 2 capitals (Total of +3)
 * +3 for Holding 5 capitals
 * +10 for holding 10 capitals

+5

 * DC (DC)

+4

 * New York (New York)
 * Chicago (Illinois)
 * Phildealphea (Pennsylvania)
 * Detroit (Michigan)
 * Los Angeles(California)

+3

 * Toledo (Ohio)
 * Boston (Massachussets)
 * St Louis (Missouri)
 * Pitsburgh (Pennslyvania)

+2

 * Baltimore (Maryland)
 * Buffolo (New York)
 * Kansas City (Missouri)
 * Seattle (Washington)
 * Lansing (Michigan)
 * Pitsburgh (Pennslyvania)
 * Richmond (Virgina)
 * New Orleans (Louisianna)

+1

 * Dallas (Texas)
 * Albany (New York)
 * Richmond (Virgina)
 * Clevland (Ohio)
 * San Fransico (California)
 * El Paso (Texas)

Multiple Fronts

 * Leaders:
 * Leading on multiple fronts:-30 per front
 * Leading on 1 front, providing military aid to another:-15 per front of Military Aid
 * Leading on 1 front, providing supplies to another:-5 per front of Supplies
 * Military Aiders:
 * Your military aider is leading on a differnt front:-5 for front they are leading
 * Your Military aider is providing military aid on a different front:-3 per front of military aid
 * Your Military aider is providing supplies on a differnt front:-2 per front of supplies
 * Supplier:
 * Your Supplier is leading on another front:-3 per front they are leading on
 * Your Supplier is providing Military aid on another front:-2 per front
 * Your Supplier is providing supplies on another front:-1 per front

Recent Wars

 * -3 for every year you are an L or CL in the past 15 turns
 * -2 for every year you are an M or CM in the past 15 years
 * -1 for every year you are an S or CS in the past 15 years
 * -10 for every year you where at Total War for the past 10 years, after which, you recive a -5 for every year for the following 5 years.

Total
Add everything Up

Result
Mods will handle this

Algo Template
COPY AND PASTE IN SOURCE MODE

Attacker
Total:
 * Tier:
 * Military Developement:
 * Economy Development
 * Strategic Modifers
 * Motive:
 * Motive
 * Modifiers
 * Population:
 * Technology:
 * Climate and Geography:
 * Location:
 * Special Locations:
 * Nations per Side:
 * Number of Troops:
 * Recent Wars:
 * Fronts:

Defender
Total
 * Tier:
 * Military Developement:
 * Economy Development:
 * Infrastrucutre:
 * Strategic Modifers:
 * Motive:
 * Motive
 * Modifiers
 * Population:
 * Technology:
 * Climate and Geography:
 * Location:
 * Special Locations:
 * Nations per Side:
 * Number of Troops:
 * Recent Wars:
 * Fronts:

Nominations for Mod
Upvoteanthology

I would like to nominate Upvoteanthology for modship in SSSND Hail Sean, Khan of Khans! (Free potatoes) 18:42, April 15, 2015 (UTC)

I second that. Spartian300 (talk) 08:07, April 16, 2015 (UTC)

Up is legit. She helps out a lot on things, and is pretty enthusiastic as well. I say go for it. Saturn120 19:25, April 16, 2015 (UTC)

Wait, up is a girl? Spartian300 (talk) 19:37, April 16, 2015 (UTC)

Spar, yes, upvote is a girl. Also I support her modship Firesofdoom 00:14, April 17, 2015 (UTC)

I second this. ;)   Oi mate,   did someone say Texas? 

TechnicallyIAmSean
I would like to nominate TechnicallyIAmSean for Modship in Shattered Stars and Stripes: The New Deal, having experience with the previous games of the Franchise and sometimes, his witty personality. Graham Industries. Creating the future, today. (talk) 19:26, April 19, 2015 (UTC)

I accept this nomination and thank Ace for nominating me. Hail Sean, Khan of Khans! (Free potatoes)

19:32, April 19, 2015 (UTC)

Daxus Inferno
I'd like to nominate myself. I feel this game has too few mods to handle this many players and problems may soon arise. I'm a generally fair mod and mainly spend my time responding as NPCs, cleaning up ASB plots, and making sure the map is always up-to-date. Morgan Freemen but With A Lamer Voice (talk) 20:21, April 19, 2015 (UTC)

I have like 0 athority, but I second that

Bruh, this is a vote. You would at least have 1 authority. Hail Sean, Khan of Khans! (Free potatoes)

This isn't a vote, this is a fourm where people speak for or against potential mods. #PraiseRoosevelt. 20:06, April 21, 2015 (UTC)

Requests for upgrades
If you belive your nation should be in a different location on the tiers list, or if you think a city should be moved up or down, do so here.

Issues
I have some major issues with some of the Tiers. I'll start in order

Tier 1
I don't think Ohio should be Tier 1. It's a Mid-West state with a notable center of industry and population but nothing else; their real power is that they vote super early. I think Ohio should be Tier 3.

Tier 3
I literally have no idea why Oklahoma would be on this list. At this time it barely has a sizeable population and is being ravaged by the Dust Bowl. Oklahoma should obviously be Tier 5.

Colorado also has no reason to be this tier. At this time it also had a fledgling population, no real industry, and the pains of the Dust Bowl I think Colorado should be Tier 4

Tier 4
Neither Dakota should be on here. No real industry and no real population, even to this day. Dakotas being Tier 4 are more of misfits than Oklahoma being Tier 3. They should both be Tier 5.

Montana should also be Tier 5. Again, no real industry or population.

Utah should also be Tier 5. It does have more of a population but it has few resources and most of the state is an unusable wasteland.

Edge's Response
The tiers is based off of how a nation would do in an algorithim if it had no player interaction , which is why Ohio is so high up. While Ohio may only have a few centers of industry and population, it still has the fourth largest popultion at this point and one of the highest industrial outputs. Ohio stays in tier 1.

Keep in mind that, according to the 1930 US census, Oklahoma outpopulated Louisiana, South Carolina, Florida, Washington, Oregon, and more, so to make the claim that it has barely a sizable population means that you must make the same claim for those nations. Also keep in mind the fact that the Dust Storm doesn't start picking up until this year in terms of gameplay. PBS states that there where 14 dust storms in 1932, but they began to pick up in 1933 when there was 38. This algo places nations where they would be as of Midnight of January First, 1933.

The tier list in this game is comparative. The Tier list essentially takes each nation and says "Who would win if these two went to war with no major determining factors." So take Ohio for example. Pit it in a 1 one 1 conflict with any nation in tier 3. Assume both sides are stable, neither have popular revolt/other bonuses, neither have incompetent leadership, and that weather conditions are perfect for combat. You will find that almost always, Ohio wins the war.

Of course, there are a lot of grey spaces in this tier list. The example you bring up with Colorado is a perfect example of this. Colorado could be in either tier, but because of the number of nations allowed in each tier, it was allowed in tier 3. If I made the number of nations in tier 3 smaller, Colorado moves down. If I make it bigger, other nations move up. The Tier list is desgined this way because if I didn't do it like this, only a few states would actually be decent. The way you want me to do it is to have it be more subjective than comparitive. Doing it that way would have New York, Pennslyvania, and Illinois in Tier 1, and then California, Michigan, and Texas in tier 2. Most of the nations would then fall into tier 4 or 5. While that may be historically accurate, no one would want to play that. And while I would like to make the game as accurate as possible, it's not going to last if it has no one to play it.

#PraiseRoosevelt. 19:52, April 17, 2015 (UTC)

Yeah, I'm Tier two! Spartian300 (talk) 20:09, April 17, 2015 (UTC)

Oh wait, nevermind. Spartian300 (talk) 20:11, April 17, 2015 (UTC)

Test post
z

Californian Federation
Total: 89.25
 * Tier: +10
 * Military Developement: 1/0=1*2.5=2.5
 * Economy Development: 1/2*2,5=1.25
 * Strategic Modifers:+12
 * Motive: +7
 * Strategic: +3
 * +4
 * Population: 6+8=+14
 * Technology: +2
 * Climate and Geography: 0
 * Location: +10
 * Special Locations: LA(4)+SF(1)+1 capital=+6
 * Nations per Side: Cali(L)=+20
 * Number of Troops: +2.5
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Fronts: 0

Oregon and Friends
Total: 78.6
 * Tier: +2
 * Military Developement: nope
 * Economy Development: 4/1=4*1.5=6
 * Infrastrucutre: +2
 * Strategic Modifers:+5
 * Motive: +7.5
 * Defending core for non-lethal I guess?: +5
 * +4
 * Washinton Motive:+3
 * Modifier:+3
 * Population: +2
 * Technology:+0
 * Climate and Geography: 0
 * Location: +25
 * Special Locations: 2 capitals=+2+2=+4
 * Nations per Side: Oregon(CL) Washinton (CL) =+20
 * Number of Troops: +3.1+2
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Fronts: 0

Result
6% max

3% in a year

4% in 2

Disscussion
Basically

Cali can still choose to send more troops

Coalition Forces

 * Tier:+8
 * Military Developement:3/1=3*2.5=7.5
 * Economy Development:2/1=2*2.5=5
 * Strategic Modifers:+2+5
 * Motive:8
 * Motive:4
 * Modifiers:4
 * Population:6+2
 * Technology:+2
 * Climate and Geography:0
 * Location:+20
 * Special Locations:+4
 * Nations per Side:Ohio (L) CoWM (S)=+25
 * Number of Troops:+2.5+2
 * Recent Wars:0
 * Fronts:0

Michigan
Total:78.66*1.5=117.99
 * Tier:+3.5
 * Military Developement:1/3=.33*2=.66
 * Economy Development:1/2=.5*2=1
 * Infrastrucutre:
 * Strategic Modifers:+5
 * Motive:
 * Motive:10
 * Modifiers:+3
 * Population:+4
 * Technology:+2
 * Climate and Geography:0
 * Location:+25
 * Special Locations:+4+2=6
 * Nations per Side:Michigan:+20
 * Number of Troops:1.5
 * Recent Wars:-3
 * Fronts:0

Result
The coalition takes 22% in 2 years

See below

Disscussion
So beacuse of the Popular revolt, The Coalition can now take 14% in 3 years and 17% in 4

Battle Lines Stall, and Ohio takes 14% of Michigan before Michigan forces can stop them. Counter attack is needed for Michigan to reclaim any land. but I would say that this war is over.

Can I counter attack? Spartian300 (talk) 15:48, April 22, 2015 (UTC)

You can but you would lose the popular revolt. #PraiseRoosevelt. 15:49, April 22, 2015 (UTC)

Which means? Spartian300 (talk) 15:50, April 22, 2015 (UTC)

That 1.5 that allowed you to win? that's the popular revolt. #PraiseRoosevelt. 16:10, April 22, 2015 (UTC)

Illinois
Total: 44.65
 * Tier: +8
 * Military Development: +2/3=.66/1=.66*2.5=1.65
 * Economy Development: +0
 * Strategic Modifiers: +7
 * Motive: +3
 * Motive: +0
 * Modifiers: +5
 * Population: +7+2
 * Technology: +2
 * Climate and Geography: -0
 * Location: +20
 * Special Locations: +4+1
 * Nations per Side: Illinois (L) +20
 * Number of Troops: +2+2
 * Recent Wars: NA
 * Fronts:3

Michigan
Total:57
 * Tier:+3.5
 * Military Developement:1/.66=1*2=2
 * Economy Development:1/2=.5*2=1
 * Infrastrucutre:
 * Strategic Modifers:+5
 * Motive:
 * Motive:10
 * Modifiers:0 (Gov just came out of a Civil War, not going to be univiersally supported)
 * Population:+4
 * Technology:+2
 * Climate and Geography:0
 * Location:+25
 * Special Locations:+4+2=6
 * Nations per Side:Michigan:+20
 * Number of Troops:1.5
 * Recent Wars:-3
 * Fronts:0

Result
Michigan throws back the attack

Illinois
Total: 53.65
 * Tier: +12
 * Military Development: +2/3=.66/1=.66*2.5=1.65
 * Economy Development: +0
 * Strategic Modifiers: +7+5
 * Motive: +3
 * Motive: +0
 * Modifiers: +5
 * Population: +7+2
 * Technology: +2
 * Climate and Geography: -0
 * Location: +20
 * Special Locations: +4+1
 * Nations per Side: Illinois (L) +20
 * Number of Troops: +2+2
 * Recent Wars: NA
 * Fronts:3

Wisconsin
Total: 63
 * Tier: +.5
 * Military Development: 1/2=.5*1=.5
 * Economy Development: +1
 * Infrastructure development: +2
 * Strategic Modifiers: +5
 * Motive: +9
 * Motive: +5
 * Modifiers: +4
 * Population: +2
 * Technology: +2
 * Climate and Geography: -0
 * Location: +25
 * Special Locations: +1
 * Nations per Side: Wisconsin (L) +20
 * Number of Troops: +1
 * Recent Wars: NA
 * Fronts: NA

result
Thrown back

disscusion
This war is just Illonois Vs. Wisconsin. Neither Ohio or Michagan is involved

About that. See, by invading Wisconsin while you're at war with me, you brought them into the war. Spartian300 (talk) 15:18, April 20, 2015 (UTC)

Missouri
Total:54.5
 * Tiers:+2
 * Military:0/.66=0
 * Economy:2/0=2*1.5=3
 * Strategic Modifers:+2+4-5-5=-6
 * Motive:+3+4
 * Population:3
 * Technology:+2
 * Climate and Geography:0
 * Location:+20
 * Specials:+5+1
 * NPS: Missouri (L)=+20
 * Number of Troops:+1.5+2
 * RECENT WARS:N/A
 * Fronts:N/A

Illinois
Total:70.65
 * Tiers:+10
 * Military:.66*2.5=1.65
 * Economy:
 * Strategic Modifers:+15
 * Motive:5+4=9
 * Popualtion:7+5
 * Technology:+2
 * Climate and Geography
 * Location:+25
 * Specials:+5
 * NPS: Illinois (L) Indiana (M) +30
 * Number of Troops:+1
 * Fronts:3

Result
Attack is thrown back

Kentucky
Total:51.5
 * Tier:.5
 * Military:0
 * Economy:+2/1=2*1=2
 * Strategic modifers:+2+4-5-5
 * Motive:+3+4=7
 * Population:=2
 * Tech:+2
 * Climate and Geography:0
 * Location:+20
 * Specials:1
 * NPS: Kentucky (L)
 * Number of Troops:+1
 * Fronts:0

Ohio
Total:85.4
 * Tier:+12
 * Military:1.5/0*2.5=1.65
 * Economy:1/2=.5*2.5=1.25
 * Strategic Modifers:+5
 * Motive;5+4=9
 * Population:6+5
 * Tech:+2
 * Climate and Geography:0
 * Location:+25
 * Specials:+3+1
 * Capitals:+1
 * NPS: Ohio (+20) Indiana (+10)
 * Number of Troops:1.5+2=3.5
 * Fronts:2

Result
Attack is thrown back

Result
Michigan collapses in a year

This algo is irrelevant. Wisconsion was invaded to, so it should be changed. Spartian300 (talk) 10:31, April 20, 2015 (UTC)

This algo factors that in. #PraiseRoosevelt. 15:17, April 20, 2015 (UTC)

And why is my score so low? It should be better then that. I mean, the current government is seen as liberators from the UFM. Spartian300 (talk) 15:19, April 20, 2015 (UTC)

Correcting a few mistakes I made. #PraiseRoosevelt. 16:10, April 20, 2015 (UTC)

The only one too make gains now in Ohio against Michigan.

Edge, be a good capitalist and supply me as well. Spartian300 (talk) 18:08, April 20, 2015 (UTC)

Michigan attack on Illinois
Michagan
 * Tier:2+4=6/2=3=+2
 * Military Developement:1/.66=1*2=2
 * Economy Development:3/2=1.5*2=3
 * Strategic Modifers:+2
 * Motive: +5
 * Modifiers:0 (Gov just came out of a Civil War, not going to be univiersally supported)
 * Population:+6
 * Technology:+2
 * Climate and Geography:0
 * Location:+17.5
 * Special Locations:+4+2=6
 * Nations per Side:Michigan (CL) Wisoncsin (C):+20
 * Number of Troops:2
 * Recent Wars:-6
 * Fronts: 2
 * Total: 41.5

Illinois
 * Tier: +10
 * Military Development: +2/3=.66/1=.66*2.5=1.65
 * Economy Development: +0
 * Strategic Modifiers: +10
 * Motive: +5
 * Modifiers: +5
 * Population: +7+2
 * Technology: +2
 * Climate and Geography: -0
 * Location: +25
 * Special Locations: +4+1
 * Nations per Side: Illinois (L) +20
 * Number of Troops: +2+2
 * Recent Wars: NA
 * Fronts: 2
 * Total: 76.65

result
Counter fails.

Illinois
Total: 57
 * Tier: +10
 * Military Development: +2/2=2/1=2*2.5=5
 * Economy Development: +0
 * Strategic Modifiers: +7+5
 * Motive: 10
 * Motive: +5
 * Modifiers: +5
 * Population: +7+2
 * Technology: +2
 * Climate and Geography: -0
 * Location: +20
 * Special Locations: +4+1
 * Nations per Side: Illinois (L) +20
 * Number of Troops: +2+2
 * Recent Wars: NA
 * Fronts:2

Missouri
Total:66.5
 * Tiers:+2
 * Military:0/.66=0
 * Economy:2/0=2*1.5=3
 * Strategic Modifers:+5
 * Motive:+5+4
 * Population:3
 * Technology:+2
 * Climate and Geography:0
 * Location:+20
 * Specials:+5+1
 * NPS: Missouri (L)=+20
 * Number of Troops:+1.5+2
 * RECENT WARS:N/A
 * Fronts:N/A

Results
Counter fails.

Coalition Forces
Total:100.8
 * Tier:+1+2=3/2=1.5~1=+12
 * Military Developement:3/2=1.5+4/2=3.5/.5=3.5*2.5=8.75
 * Economy Development:2/2=1+3/2=2.5/.5=2.5
 * Strategic Modifers:+2+5+5
 * Motive:7.83
 * Motive:4+3=7/2=3.5
 * Modifiers:4+4+5=4.3
 * Population:6+3=9/2=4.5+5=9.5
 * Technology:+2
 * Climate and Geography:-5
 * Location:+20
 * Special Locations:+4
 * Nations per Side:Ohio (CL) Indiana (CM) CoWM (CS)=+25
 * Number of Troops:+2.5+1+2=5.5
 * Recent Wars:0
 * Fronts:2

Kentucky
Total:51.5
 * Tier:.5
 * Military:0
 * Economy:+2/2=1/3.5=.28
 * Strategic modifers:5
 * Motive:+10+4=14
 * Population:=2
 * Tech:+2
 * Climate and Geography:0
 * Location:+20
 * Specials:1
 * NPS: Kentucky (L) Virgina (M)=+30
 * Number of Troops:+2
 * Fronts:2

Result
23% Max

11% in 1 year, 17% in 2

Pennsylvania
Total:104
 * Tier:+12
 * Military:3/0=3*2.5=7.5
 * Economy:3/1*2.5=7.5
 * Strategic Modifers:+2+5+5=12
 * Motive:2+0 (Gov Nuetral, Rebels never adressed)=2
 * Population:9+5=14
 * Climate and Geograpy:-5
 * Tech:+2
 * Specials:4+3=7
 * Location:+20
 * capitals:+3
 * NPS: Pennslyvania (20)
 * Troops:+2
 * Fronts:0

Kentucky
Total:62.5
 * Tier:.5
 * Military:0
 * Economy:+2/2=1/3.5=.28
 * Strategic modifers:5
 * Motive:+10+4=14
 * Population:=2
 * Tech:+2
 * Climate and Geography:0
 * Location:+20
 * Specials:1
 * NPS: Kentucky (L) Virgnina (M)=+30
 * Number of Troops:+2
 * Fronts:2

Result
24% max

12% in a year

18% in 2

Disscussion
Probably the last war to use this algo.

Uhh, the algo for my attack on Illinois should be Michigan + Wisconsin. And what the hell is wrong with Sat? He just got an alliance with Vat, now he sorta broke it? What? His turns confused me.Spartian300 (talk) 22:10, April 21, 2015 (UTC)

So I am not going to bother because We are already on the second year of the war, so it would collapse anyway. #PraiseRoosevelt. 01:54, April 22, 2015 (UTC)

Attacker

 * Tier: +4
 * Military Development: +3/0=3*1=3
 * Economy Development: +2/2*1=2
 * Strategic Modifers:+12
 * Motive: +6
 * Motive:3
 * Modifiers: +3+5
 * Population: +3 + 10
 * Technology: +2
 * Climate and Geography: 0 (same climate)
 * Location: +10
 * Special Locations: +3 (2 Capitals)
 * Nations per Side: +20
 * Number of Troops: +2.5+5
 * Recent Wars: -10 for Dust Bowl
 * Fronts: 0

Total: 75.5

Defender

 * Tier: +1
 * Military Development:0
 * Economy Development:2/2=1*1=1
 * Infrastrucutre: 2
 * Larger Economy: 0
 * Larger Industry: 0
 * Motive: +10
 * Motive
 * Modifiers: +4
 * Population: 0
 * Technology: +2
 * Climate and Geography: 0 (Same climate)
 * Location: +25
 * Special Locations: +1
 * Nations per Side: + 20
 * Number of Troops: +1
 * Recent Wars: 0
 * Fronts: 0

Total: 67

Result
6% max

3% in a year

4% in 2

Disscussion
I think Iowa might deserve popular revolt bonus, but that's up to the mods. Also, I'm not sure how development works for NPCs. Shikata ga nai! 23:43, April 19, 2015 (UTC)

Who are you attacking here?

West Virginia
So I'm in charge of Virgnia, and I was invading West Virginia. But Pennsylvania, which I'm assuming didn't see that I invaded, asked West Virginia to join with them. They did join with Pennsylvania peacefully. I am opposed to this for many reasons. First of all, it makes far more sense for them to join with Virginia (which was randomly rejected), as we are extremely similar, and our only differences come from the civil war 90 years ago. Also, I invaded. Does this mean that I'm now at war with Pennsylvania? Or can I cancel the invasion?

You could cancel. Best you do. You could also help me fight Ohio, and I might be able to help you gain some monies. Just go help Kentucky. Spartian300 (talk) 19:40, April 20, 2015 (UTC)

If you withdraw, I can secure you an alliance and security with PA, with trade deals included. Plus, I'll grant you a county border if you do. Saturn120 20:09, April 20, 2015 (UTC)

So if both sides agree, then you can back out of the war. It appears that Penn is alright with back out of the war, so if you two reach an agreement #PraiseRoosevelt. 19:58, April 21, 2015 (UTC)

Arguments against the Texan-Californian Union
Alright so don't have a lot of time so I will just summarize my arguments for now. I also have rebuttals to Up's arguments presented in chat should they be needed. UNless you can convince me that this union is alright, then it is not going to fly. #PraiseRoosevelt. 17:06, April 21, 2015 (UTC)
 * 1) Two Players as one nation has never been allowed in the SSS series, so one player here would have to give up there nation. As Up expalined on chat, this is two states forming one nation, not an alliance. Remeber that mergers like these have only ever happened on the final turn of the game. We have had players play as vassals before (See SSS1) but never play as a district in another nation.
 * 2) The Larger economy (California) would be forced under a smaller economy (Union of the South).
 * 3) It would break the game. These are the two largest nations West of the Mississippi and allowing them to merge would hand everything West of the river over to Up (remeber Sean would have to give up his nation).
 * 4) Reforming the US in any form would be unpopular. Remeber all of these states left the US on there own terms, unlike the pervious 2 SSS games
 * 5) Sets a precedence for 2 things: Vassal Spam and Multiplayer Nations.
 * 6) Up's own strawpoll that she created (despite the fact that only the opinions of nuetral mods matters) voted no against the union.

If we cannot both play, then it's a no-go. I'm not giving up my nation under any condition. So yeah, this is solved. Let's focus on some other stuff. Hail Sean, Khan of Khans! (Free potatoes) 17:47, April 21, 2015 (UTC)

Algo Reform
So obviously, having done a few algos for this game, my idealistic approch to the algos was wrong. I will be refoming the algo soon. #PraiseRoosevelt. 20:37, April 21, 2015 (UTC)

Confed of the Western Mississippi
Total:70
 * Military:6
 * Industry:6
 * Technology:10
 * Troops:+2
 * Population:4+5=9
 * Chance:+4
 * Strategic Modifers:+5+5+6+5=21
 * Motive: Attacking to enforce Politcial Hem (+5) Economic (+2) Strategic (+3)=3.3~3+4=7
 * Location:+4
 * Special Locations:+2
 * Capitals:+3
 * Fronts:0
 * Recent Wars:0

Tennesse
Total:43
 * Military:+4
 * Industry:+4
 * Technology:+6
 * Troops:+1
 * Population:+2
 * Motive:+5+4=9
 * Chance:+9
 * Strategic Modifers:+2
 * Location:+5
 * Special Locations:0
 * Fronts:0
 * Capitals:+1
 * Fronts:0

Result
23% max.

11% in a year, 17% in 2,  19% in 3

Disscussion
This war was done Pre-Merger with Alabama.Should Alabama's player request, it will be changed #PraiseRoosevelt. 02:24, April 22, 2015 (UTC)

Iowa
Total:60
 * Military:4
 * Industry:3
 * Tech:6
 * Troops:+3+5=+8
 * Population:+3+2=5
 * Chance:8
 * Location:4
 * Strategic Modifers:+5+5+6=16
 * Motive:Aiding Ally (+3) Strategic (+3)=3+3=6
 * Special Locations:0
 * Capitals:+3
 * Fronts:0
 * Recent Wars:-3

Wisconsin
Total:4
 * Military:5
 * Industry:5
 * Technology:10
 * Troops:1
 * Population:2
 * Chance:6
 * Location:+5
 * Strategic Modifers:+2-3=-1
 * Motive:Defending from Non-Leathal:+5=5+4=9
 * Special Locations:0
 * Capitals:1
 * Fronts:-30
 * Recent Wars:-9

Result
1 year collapse. Wisconsin falls to Iowa.

Disscussion
Absoulte bullshit. Spartian300 (talk) 08:03, April 22, 2015 (UTC)

Wisconsin is a higher Tier then Iowa. Spartian300 (talk) 08:04, April 22, 2015 (UTC)

Check thw algo. Spartian300 (talk) 10:57, April 22, 2015 (UTC)

Yeah, this is done wrong. Spartian300 (talk) 14:19, April 22, 2015 (UTC)

Uhh no, it's not. The Old Algorithm was Defender Biased, which is why it was so easy for Wisconsin to hold back Illiniois.

Summary of the Results for the Northeastern war
So things in the North Eastern War have kinda gotten muddy, so here is a quick summary of the current results #PraiseRoosevelt. 02:31, April 22, 2015 (UTC)
 * Kentucky collapses to Coalition and Pennslyvania forces on after this year.
 * Litterally 0 changes in Illinois
 * Michigan has lost 14% of it's homeland to coalition efforts
 * Michigan had a military coup and is some kind of military dictatorship

Both Indiana and Illinois have dropped out, so I can now focus on Ohio with my allies now, right? Spartian300 (talk) 08:02, April 22, 2015 (UTC)

You don't have any Allies remaining. Kentucky is Dead. Missouri is fighting Illinois, and Wisconsin is dead.

Wisconsin is WAY stronger then that, Edge. They beat Illinois, and they end up losing because the score is 4? That ain't right! Spartian300 (talk) 15:29, April 22, 2015 (UTC)

Also, if Spar chooses to Counter attack, it will use the new algorithm instead of the old.

Spar, the massive front and recent war penalties you inflicted on Wisconsin mean it was practically impotent. No surprise it lost. Shikata ga nai! 20:04, April 22, 2015 (UTC)

ASA
Total:139
 * Military:10
 * Industry:10
 * Technology:10
 * Number of Troops:+3+5=8
 * Population:17+30=47
 * Location:+3
 * Chance:+9
 * Strategic Modifers:+5+8+5+6=24
 * Motive: Political Heg (+5) Strategic (+3)=4+4=8
 * Capitals:+3
 * Special Locations:+7
 * Fronts:0
 * Recent wars:0

Deleware
Total:38
 * Military:2
 * Industry:2
 * Technology:6
 * Troops:1
 * Population:0
 * Location:5
 * Chance:5
 * Strategic Modifers:2
 * Motive:Defending from a lethal Attack:+10+4=14
 * Capitals:1
 * Specials:0
 * Fronts:0
 * Recent Wars:0

Result
2 year collapse.

Illonois
Total: 63.5
 * military: +8
 * induestry: +10
 * technology: +10
 * troops: +2.5+2
 * population: +7+5
 * location: +4
 * chance: +2
 * startgic mods: +5
 * motive: +5+4
 * capitals: +1
 * special locations: +4
 * fronts: -3
 * Recent wars: -6

Missori
toltal: 21
 * military: +5
 * indestry: +4
 * technology: +10
 * troops: +2
 * population: +3
 * location: +5
 * chance: +1
 * strtigic mods: +2+5
 * motive: +10+4
 * capitals: +1
 * special locations: +5
 * fronts: -30
 * recent wars: -6

Iowa
Total: 47
 * Military: +5 +1
 * Industry: +5 +1
 * technology: +10
 * troops: +3+2
 * population: +6
 * location: +4
 * chance: +2
 * startgic mods: +5 +6
 * motive: +5
 * capitals: +4
 * special locations: 0
 * fronts: N/A
 * Recent wars: -6

Missouri
toltal: 23
 * military: +5 +1
 * indestry: +5 +1
 * technology: +10
 * troops: +3
 * population: +3
 * location: +4
 * chance: +7
 * strtigic mods: +2+5
 * motive: +10+4
 * capitals: +1
 * special locations: +5
 * fronts: -30
 * recent wars: -6

result
Illionis: 50% max. 25% in a year.

Iowa:34% max, 17% in a year.

Missouri collapses in a year.

Discussion
I added a second front, although Missouri clearly loses. Shikata ga nai! 22:03, April 22, 2015 (UTC)

Need to work on the spelling. Also where the random +1's are coming from is beyond me.

Michigan
Total:43.5*1.2=52.2
 * Military:+8
 * Industry:+8
 * Technology:+10
 * Number of troops:+2.5
 * Population:+4
 * Chance:+8
 * Strategic modifers:-4+2
 * Motive:10 (Countering Major Enemy)+ 8(attacking major enemy with no desire to kill)=+9+3
 * Special Locations:+4
 * Capitals;+1
 * Recent Wars:-12

Ohio
Total:53.2
 * Military:+10
 * Industry:+10
 * Tech:+10
 * Troops:2.7
 * Population:6+2
 * Chance:+8
 * Strategic Modifers:+2
 * Motive:+8 (defending from major enemy) +3 (Defending Territory)=5.5+4=9.5
 * Special Locations:+4
 * Capitals;+1
 * Recent Wars:-12

Result
With Heavy Casualties, Occupied Michigan is defended.

Cali
Total:78
 * Military:+8
 * Industry:+8
 * Technology:+10
 * Troops:+3
 * Population:+6+12
 * Location:+2
 * Chance:+8
 * Strategic Modifers:+5+5
 * Motive:+2+4=6
 * Specials;+5
 * Capitals:+3
 * Recent Wars:-6

Utah
Total:36.5
 * Military:3
 * Industry:+2
 * Technology:+6
 * Troops:+1.5
 * Chance:+7
 * Population:0
 * Strategic Mods:+2
 * Motive:+10+4=14
 * Specials:+0
 * Capitals:+1
 * Recent Wars:0

Result
36% max

18% in a year

27% in 2

30% in 3

31% in 4

32% in 5

33% in 6

Illinois
Toltal: 59.5
 * military: +8
 * indestry: +10
 * Technology: +10
 * troops: +3.5
 * population: +7+2
 * location: +4
 * chance:+8
 * stratigic mods: +5
 * motive: Pre-empitive strike: +4, limiting rivil: +4=+4+;
 * capitals: +2
 * special locations: +3+4
 * fronts: N/A
 * recent wars: -15

Iowa
Toltal: 4.8
 * military: +4
 * industry: +3
 * technology: +6
 * troops: +3
 * population: +6
 * location: +5
 * Chance:+2
 * strategic mods: +2
 * motive: defending from lethal: +10
 * cpaitals: +3
 * special locations: +2
 * fronts: -30
 * recent wars: -12
 * toltal war: *1.2

result
30% MAX

14% in a year

22% in 2 years

24% in 3

25% in 4

Discussion
Given that Iowa controls Wisconsin, I'm guessing its tiers should be those of Wisconsin, which are all significantly higher than the ones used here. Also, I'm activating total war, which means I get a 1.2 multiplier.. Shikata ga nai! 11:02, April 23, 2015 (UTC)

YOU CAN'T JUST HAVE WORKED AROUND THIS AND TRIED TO HELP ME FIRST, COULD YOU? I NEED THOSE WEAPONS!!!!!!! Spartian300 (talk) 11:16, April 23, 2015 (UTC)

I got invaded by a nation which had promised not to invade me. So no, we couldn't have worked around this. Also Fires, it's "Illinois" and not "Illonis". Shikata ga nai! 11:30, April 23, 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for the correction kras, I'll add it in a minute. Second of all, i have added the front penelty on kras's side of the algo. This is because Dax has declared war on him, but I have yet to do that algo.

F*** it all, I am invading Kras, then I start taking Toledo!!!! Spartian300 (talk) 12:46, April 23, 2015 (UTC)